To get annoyed that other posters assume disabled can't work

[lesley33]

I know its hard to get an employer to take on someone who is disabled. But I hate the assumption by some posters that because someone is disabled they won't be able to work. I know loads of people with severe disabilities who are employed including people who are deaf, paraplegic, bipolar or have severe cerebal palsy. People with severe disabilities can work and there are some employers who will employ people.

I agree that there is a mindset that the disabled are incapable of work.

However I also think that there is a group of disabled people who help to perpetuate this by the fact that they choose not to work even though they are perfectly capable.

I am totally blind and have been since birth. Something like 85% of blind people in the UK are out of work, and I can categorically state that the majority of the blind people I know who are out of work are so through choice.

I worked up until ds was born and then I became a sahm through choice. however I then took on voluntary roles, helped out in school, was on the PTA, was chair of governors etc. Now I am back in a position where I am seeking payed employment and yes of course it is hard. But it is hard for everyone.

But in the meantime I know plenty of people who have never even filled in a job application, but who are entitled to direct payments/incapasity (or whatever it's called these days)/a blue badge. They are no more disabled than I am so why should they be claiming for money in order to help them employ a PA/home help etc? And before anyone says "oh you don't know the facts," yes, I do - these are people who have the same level or sometimes even more eyesight than I do with no additional disabilities.

I grew up in South Africa. There you have two choices - you either find a job, or you starve. All of my blind friends over there have jobs - without exception. No they are not mind-blowing careers in all instances, but at least they are working.

The fact that it seems that more disabled people are out of work in a country where a benefit culture enables them to do that is not pure coincidence IMO.

Ok, what about those who have tried to work and faced employers not prepared to invest in making the workplace accessible? Those who have had salaries cut due to disability? The list is endless,

Our company operates a "positive about disability" policy that means we will offer interview to anyone with a declared disability if they match the person spec as sometimes the biggest barrier is employers discarding applications if they tick the disability box. As a result we have a very diverse body of employees who are judged on their skills rather than their disability.

It can be very hard for people with disabilities to get past the first hurdle of the short list and its frustrating as employers may be missing out on people who are very able at what they do.

no-one said it wasn't hard though. But it is not impossible, and things have certainly improved, although changes to access to work under the labour government haven't helped.

When I applied for my first job I'd just returned from overseas, had no qualifications, no money and had never worked before as I'd just left school. Actually I did have the obligatory telephony qualification which blind people were encouraged to obtain back then.

I applied for 168 jobs before I was successful, and back then it was perfectly legal for employers to discriminate against applicants based on disability plus technology wasn't on a par with mainstream technology back then which made things harder.

Eventually I went and did telesales just to prove that I was willing to work, and interestingly I found secretarial work fairly soon after that.

But I was discriminated against horribly by my manager who:

Fed my guide dog even though being explicitly asked not to.
arranged team lunches out of town so that I would not be able to go as I didn't drive
told me I would never be promoted because I had a disability.

Eventually I moved on and got another job (had moved out of that town then so job move was inevitable, and by that time the DDA had come into play and employers were no longer allowed to discriminate. This time I only applied for about twenty jobs before I was successful and my employers were immensely accommodating.

And my last job was the first interview I went for.

Yes of course there are going to be employers that discriminate. in the same way there are employers that discriminate against women/the aged etc - you will never get away from that.

But I know now that I can walk into an interview with a laptop and when asked about how I will do the job can show them just how access software works.

And yes of course there are some disabilities that are more difficult. And equally there are some jobs that are outside my remit - I will never become a driving instructor for instance, or even a TA because I can't read the board which does limit the scope of what I can apply for.

But you have to work with what you've got and persiveer, because there really is no self respect in actively choosing not to work.

nenevomito the two tick scheme is one which I think has been extremely helpful to many people with disabilities applying for work.

In general I operate a rule of only disclosing my disability if the employer asks on the application. If they don't ask then I don't disclose until I walk into the interview with my guide dog.

I believe that once I am at interview stage I have as equal a chance as anyone. but I am outwardly self confident and self assured and I know I do well in interviews.

And there is also always the option of starting one's own business if dfinding employment proves difficult, which is something I'm looking into at the moment.

"But you have to work with what you've got and persiveer, because there really is no self respect in actively choosing not to work."

so please tell me wtf my dd will do.
i mean yes she can use a pc with her head switches, but she can't read.
umm, oh she can't talk either or use her hands and legs.... the list goes on.
so what job can she do

to start own buisness you quite often need money in the first place

and to start your own business you will still need support and all the other stuff,

Surely one of the issues is you can't treat all people with disabilities as the same. Clearly some people have very profound disabilities which affect their ability to communicate, comprehend or socialise massively, and for those people, full-time or any type of work may be inappropriate. I don't think Wannabe is suggesting someone who is non-verbal and unable to read take a job in an office, but clearly there is a lot of talent going to waste if people with abilities but who need some adjustment to the work environment are unemployed for years or never work.

And there are employers who actively seek to employ people with disabilities, Co-op being one of them.

yanbu .... disabilities doesnt mean you cant work...

Most insparational disabled person i know is my sons football coach !

He has one leg .

His best line to the boys is " you can kick the ball straight in goal , if i can do it with one leg , you lot can do it with two , nae bother !!! ".

He even got his false leg decorated in the clubs colours !

I think there is a very crap assumption by some people that employment is somehow more optional for any disabled person than it is for anyone else, and that 'giving' someone with a disability a job is a kindness rather than a process bound by the legal system.

A woman I know who is physically disabled and, incidentally, very young looking for her age, went to an interview a few years back when she was fresh out of university, and got the response 'oh, dear, we would love to take you on if we could, it's just we don't really have a job at the moment for you, but if you'd like to come in one day a week we could maybe find you something to do?'.

They had advertised the job and had her CV in front of them FFS!

sevenfold - Where in this thread have I said that all disabled people can't work. I have repeatedly said that of course some disabled people can't work. I think most people would accept that.

However on unemployment and benefit threads I have seen people posting things like well of course if you have a serious disability like bipolar you can't work. And that is so wrong. My partner has severe bipolar - been out of touch with reality, etc and works full time. Of course if someone's bipolar isn't controlled they may not be able to work. But to make a blanket assumption is imo wrong.

And like posters here, I find it is disabled people who work who are far harder on other disabled people who don't. My friend who is profoundly deaf and works full time, tells me she frequently comes across people less deaf than her who insist they can't work because of their deafness.

No-one is saying this is easy. Some employers are very positive about recruiting disabled people, some are not. Some jobs will be physically impossible. You may find it harder to get to work or as I do, have to do physio before you are able to go to work. But some disabled people can and do work and some employers will employ disabled people.

'But you have to work with what you've got and persiveer, because there really is no self respect in actively choosing not to work.

Possibly: ds3 doesn't have the capacity to make the choice which may very well be the key. I hope this will change; school feels not. His IQ isn't low he just cannot focus: we have a business, would we employ someone who spends 70% of their day starting into space? Probably, no. Would we employ someone in a wheelchair or VI doing a suitable role (eg maybe not rigging )- yes.

BUT- and I think this is where people get this hugely wrong- making the choice to work is not the same as working, especially when jobs are scarce because there are more applicants for each position to compete against.

SO i will change my chart above.

1. Not all disabled people can work: there are many types of person within the label.

1. Many disabled people CAN work.

1. Many who wish to work can't find work- recession plus all the other extra difficulties. Dismissing someone wanting but unable as unwilling is unfair, it almost certainly WILL take longer.

1. There are few schemes in place to allow people to work. more debate needs to be held on what is reasonable for adaptations before we slate people and say they can really work- is it reasonable to expect a company to pay for a 1-1 to keep ds3 on task? I would argue no. OTOH if it's a computer reader, a ramp, or allowing TEACCH adaptations to an office- probably, yes. We would and we're a small one employee outfit right now.

1. Disability varies widely: from able bodied with severe learning disability through to severe physical disability with a high IQ and ability. Blanket assumptions can never work- ability to work should be based purely on functional ability. 'The Disabled' is not a group that exists in any real sense, it's just a handy label and really implies no links between it's members other than a guarantee of a few extra challenges somewhere.

1. Plenty who cannot work really do want to, not being able to is NOT the same as not wanting to. I've supported an ex forces blokes with severe injuries and PTSD and trust me, he HATED not working. But given loud noises made him lash out at the nearest person, better he did not.

' Of course if someone's bipolar isn't controlled they may not be able to work. But to make a blanket assumption is imo wrong.
'

I agree; my assumption was that the thread was to say all disabled people can work- huge apologies then.

I remember an incident on here where I mentioned Dh was severely ill with (long managed now) depression. A reply laid into him with a right go for not working, every swear word going- fucker, bastard etc.

He was working, 2 jobs in fact. had a few weeks sick but could hardly help that given he was recovering from a suicide attempt.

Now luckily some people on MN the had been to our home whilst he was working and charged in defending him before I even saw the post and the post was deleted. but I learned a lot about assumptions from that.

DS3 could fill in a job application. no way he could source one, send it off, attend interview. He's a complex kid- pockets of ability amongst absolute disability- but it taeks a lot of time to comprehend that. It was a lightbulb moment for me when someone mentioned functional ability- yes, exactly that. this kid operates in black and white: no abstract, no 'to do' list or concepts around that.

'The fact that it seems that more disabled people are out of work in a country where a benefit culture enables them to do that is not pure coincidence IMO. well no: they'd be dead otherwise and dead people aren't out of work, they are buried surely?

Which I guess my son would be one day.

So forgive me but thank Fuck for the benefit system. Because he doesn't deserve that. He's a lively friendly cuddly little man who just can't 'do'.

sevenfold nobody said that all disabled should get out to work. Of course there are some disabilities that make it impossible and nobody has denied that.

But equally there are some disabled who could be working and aren't - and attitudes facilitate that.

I remember when I went sailing for the first time - it was a VI specific week, and we went over to another boat for a drink one night. So there I was chatting to this guy and asked him what he did for a living. (at this point I was just 20 and the concept of not working for a living was somewhat alien to me). so I asked "so what do you do for a living?" "nothing," replied he. "oh. why not?" "well if I worked then I would only get four weeks holiday and then I wouldn't get to do all the things I want to do." and yes, he was deadly serious.

Currently ds3 says he wants to farm cheese on the moon. Seriously.

in tribute to an ex poster, he'd probably also accept a dead otter for Christmas.

Wannabe was he definitely on benefits though?

I mean as long as he self funded his choice, no?

Benefits- nope.

lot of people waded into defend an op who said she wa snot happy about her ds sat next to a boy that smelled of wee . (thankfully others waded in to defned the other child)

Or the one swhere people have posted how do i tell a person in the office they smell and got the poor you you should not have to work like that

how would you think an adult would get treated in the workplace if had continence issues ?.I can just see work colleagues posting on Aibu to refuse to work becuase of the smell

Depends on the adult HC

I hope I would be fine with it. Some would not I know.

Peachy thats because the type of person you are

but we have seen it time after time where others do not have your understanding

I am getting really sick of this whole fucking 'disabled' thing.

AIBU to think that people should be described as people?

What does someone who is blind have in common with someone with MS? (unless the person with MS has a visiual impairment or the Blind person has MS).

Is that bloke that someone always knows who says he is disabled but looks fine to me - that bloke - what has he got in common with my 8 year old dreadlocked, mixed race, working class, adopted, boy with ASD and LDS?

Unless any of the above discriptors could also be applied to him?

STOP lumping people in a big ol pile because they happen to share a word that covers thousands of conditions.

Its getting on my nerves.

'all disabled'
'some disabled'
'the disabled'

ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!

Yes absolutely.

And that's also a factor for ds3: knowing how many of the vilage residents treated him in mainstream would I be scared for him working? Abso bloody lutely!

Village has set up a coop thing to provide respite / home help and technically we qualify but it's the same bitches that tried tos top him having a TA, the lady who got her dh to shout at me and really intimidate me and caused me to develop PTSD and a bout of agoraphobia; the lady who says if I can;t get ds3 to school on my own cost (remembering that ds1 is at another SN unit other side of city, not my fault they cannnot locate them close by is it?) then he doesn't deserve and education.

The more attitudes I meet towards ds3 the more I want him to stay with me always. I wouldn't do that obviously and encourage him every step (I hope my expectation of ds1 to work proves that) but blimey, people just don't care is my experience.

And even if he did get work- oh I wish!- I still recall DH being sacked in a job many years ago now 'because you are a cat person and I like dog people' (he was on his trial). That type ain't gonna put up with ds3's oddities.

peachy yes, he was on benefits. I know because I naively asked him "oh, but how can you possibly afford it," and he told me.

Or my friend who quit her job after her marriage broke down and she moved back closer to her parents (fair enough) but who has applied for maybe five jobs in the past five years and then tells people how hard she has found it to get work. So when I helpfully suggested that a local company down the road were recruiting, or that I knew my previous employers were looking for people and perhaps I could let someone there have her cv she said "oh thank you but those jobs just don't excite me." Well yes I get that. Working in a call centre didn't excite me either, but in the meantime she's claiming benefits while claiming to be unable to find a job.

I get how hard it is - I do. Having been through the application process time after time after time with rejection after rejection after rejection. And looking for jobs now there are so few jobs and so many applicants that of course it is harder. And in instances where companies have to make adaptations that makes it much worse, although for a small company like yours the government would fund adaptations under access to work.

But hard doesn't have to mean impossible - not for everyone.

And I totally agree that the benefits system is a good thing. But IMO it needs to be there for people like your ds3 who absolutely need it and couldn't live without it, not for people who have decided their disability entitles them to a free ride.