to think that, in general, people in the UK have an appalling attitude towards academically bright children?

[AKMD]

I realise that that's a sweeping generalisation but it irks me. I am academically bright and had a dreadful time at school, not really from the other children, but from the teachers and friends' parents, who were quite sneery and mocked me infront of the whole class/friends if I ever did get anything wrong. It always felt that they were waiting for me to trip up and that they resented me just because I was good all-rounder (terrible at art though!). That was only 7 years ago. Since then, I've seen it happen time and again when people openly jeer at others who are clever, especially girls and women, and it's seen as completely acceptable. Just a few weeks ago on here, I was really shocked when a mother posted in Children's Books about her 18mo DD liking books and asked for age-appropriate suggestions, to be met with sarcasm about introducing her to Joyce and applying to Mensa. I've seen one regular MNer who clearly has bright children be sneered at when she said that the gap between her DDs' intellectual and emotional maturity caused them social problems: "Oh, poor you, it must be sooo hard to have clever children ."

AIBU to think that this attitude is disgusting and that the obstacles placed in the way of bright children are one of the reasons why we as a country are increasingly going to struggle to compete in a global market?

Oh and may I add that, as I may have mentioned once or twice MY DD IS VERY CLEVER! And the only people who bother her in any way are the determinedly anti-academic thugs whose opinion she couldn't give a stuff about anyway, or those as successful as she is who are horribly (but subtly as only teenage girls can be) competitive. Teachers worship the ground she walks on - honest, they do! Beleive me in a school that is pulling itself up by it's bootstraps no-one is going to resent or belittle a child who works hard and is going to get the results it needs (as much as does).

Orm - I think it is not penalising to say 'sit and read a book'. But the experience I mentioned was being to 'go away' and not being allowed to do anything else - very different! I never understood what was wrong - I did not know if I'd got the answers so badly wrong I was being punished, or what.

That is plain nasty. It wasn't intended that way I'm sure, but the teacher failed to realize that I wasn't psychic and did not know why she reacted as she did. I think this sort of thing really is quite common.

It helps, of course, if you can go home and get an explanation from your parents that makes sense - but if you're a child whose parents haven't taught you the social skills, or whose parents have pushed you, it may be their response won't be to explain the teacher didn't mean to punish you. It'll be 'you must have got it wrong' or 'I'm furious and will go and speak to teh teacher'.

LaPrune you are absolutely right that it's not an easy thing to teach. To be honest social skills are never easy to teach. But I do think it would help a bit if parents explained to their DCs what is ok and what is not wrt their abilities.

And at "overwhelming need for information to be right". I was exactly like this. Still am in fact. 24 years later and I still find it hard not to correct somewhen when I know they are wrong. So as I say, I completely agree it's not an easy thing to teach!

I corrected teachers once or twice - in all innocence - I thought it was important! I couldn't understand why they were angry and although I now can see that would be seen as cocky, I actually still think if a teacher is wrong and a child points it out, it's not so very hard to say "OOPS Silly me! Xxxxx is right, which just goes to show no one's perfect not even me!" etc. Maybe my lack of social skills is still a problem, but I do think in school, the pursuit of the truth is important.

Minipie I am exactly the same!! I've learned that the nicest bright people don't need to correct people - learned it by observation. It's hard because of course all through school you're trained to be RIGHT!

Bragging is unpleasant - think of all the round robin Christmas letters (and now Facebook - the 24/7 round robin) and how they can make you feel ill.

I would never, ever boast to anyone about ds's achievements. It's just rude. And by implication is saying that "my child is better than yours" and no one appreciates that.

Furthermore, large numbers of MNetters seem to have inordinately gifted children. When these people get together in a virtual room, huffy sparks begin to fly as the scent of competition invades the air.

ypu are talking shit , really!

When my DS was very small, kids at nursery school mocked him for using long, "funny" words and he seemed destined to become an outsider. However, joining the local Explorer's Club of the National Association for Gifted Children helped him to find friends. Once he'd done that, he became confident enough to handle the rough-and-tumble elsewhere and got top grades at school. Interestingly, many of the parents offering us reading suggestions and enrichment ideas at the time had been brought up abroad. It is only in Britain, I think, that parents are expected to keep quiet about having a gifted child.

Piffle, unimother.

My dcs use long words. It's most probably because I do. They may or may not be "gifted" but their use of long words has certainly not precluded their making friends.

I think because being clever is so highly prized, people are more sensitive to perceived arrogance - it's more upsetting for others to feel less intelligent because of the opportunities that intelligence opens up than less good as sport because unless you are likely to be a professional footballer, who cares?

And smart people are horrible to each other - academia is vicious

Is this a good time to tell you about my DCs? Every one of them a fecking genius (in their own ways) and stunningly beautiful.

I think it depends where you go in academia.
There are a couple of institutionss filled to the brim with sociopaths.

Okay-so what are the "unwritten rules" of getting along in school, working hard and achieving success without getting people's backs up?
My starters off the top of my head:
Don't fish for an extra mark or two when marking tests unless it really makes a significant difference to your grade.
Don't pick the teacher up on trivial mistakes all the time-remember they've had to plan the lesson and at times we all make small trivial errors.
Don't tell people your grades if high unless they ask.
Be interested in more than the work at school-ie people and their problems.
Just a few I wish I'd learnt sooner!

This is the thing through - when I was at school, I was awkward, I had undiagnosed dyspraxia and various sensory stuff, I had a speech impediment and geeky glasses and I was small and weedy. All I had was being a bit clever. Because of the way my mind worked, if a word was spelled wrong, I had trouble reading it, but if it was right, I could read really fast, and because there was a lack of children's books in our house (at least for the speed I happened to read) I ended up reading whatever was around.

I was never going to be the best socially, and I asked too many questions - again, my brain works in a way that means I learn best when I know how something works, rather than learning by rote (tbh, I don't really "get" how people learn things any other way).

So, was I meant to suppress my personality, hide the one area in which I had ability, and try and learn in a way that just didn't work for me? When I was a small child, was I meant to be changing the words I used, even though the ones I was using were the most accurate, just to fit in? Was I not allowed to be proud if I worked hard and got a good mark?

I used to answer questions in exams wrong on purpose, so I wouldn't get too much negative attention. I'm not even that clever - being the best in one area out of only 60 people is not that amazing - but I learned that being clever was bad, asking questions is silly and reading is uncool.

I don't recognise the attitude at all. If the bright kids are pleasant and not arrogant and if they don't assume they're inherently better than others by virtue of being academically bright I don't think anyone really does them down, do they? I've never encountered it anyhow.

It's true there are some intensely competitive mothers on MN who get very uptight about other kids' academic success, but that's a separate point.

But hmc you have to take into account that a lot of DCs do not want a main part-or certainly not as many who have mothers that want them to have a part.
The most successful school production that I was ever involved in, or most successful for the DCs, was where they got to choose between acting, music and art work. No one was bored sitting around as the chorus while the rest did their part and no one having to do crowd control. I took the art group and we had a wonderful few weeks producing the scenery and props. The music group composed and performed which left a third to do the acting. The DCs just naturally formed 3 groups, they were about even and everyone got their first choice.
HOWEVER it was a one off, parents felt cheated if their DC wasn't on stage, they didn't want to say 'wasn't Miranda wonderful', they were not in the least impressed with 'my DC produced the second tree on the left' or 'my DC is playing the drum'-they wanted one thing only-to see their DC on the stage. So therefore it was back to the ususual and doing a play that has to have 60 DCs, so that most of them are going to be the chorus, and you have to hold auditions-the first rule is the DC has to be heard at the back and many, many DCs can't do it. (I couldn't as a DC, but would have loved to do props.).

I haven't seen a problem-at DSs comprehensive it is 'cool' to aim high.

sorry -usual

Of course it happens, Yellowstone.
Otherwise it's just a thread full of women saying "I was bullied because I was obnoxious and arrogant! How very dare they!"
Glad you haven't seen it, though. It's very depressing.

I haven't read the thread, because of its length. I just made a stand alone comment based on my own experience. I should have made that clear.

The parents of bright kids who bang on about it all the time really piss me off and the kids who brag about being better at maths, in the top table, reading the biggest book annoy me too - when did boasting become socially acceptable?

You will find that the truly bright have very unassuming parents who never mention it. They have no need.

Re school plays. I HATE the idea that the parts should be shared around. No-one suggests the sports teams should be shared around. Children need to have a chance to develop their talents and hopefully shine. Ds2 is good at drama - and usually chosen for decent parts. He loves sport but isn't that talented and often misses places on teams despite desperately wanting them. That's life. Give him a chance to shine in drama please.

Ds3 is not talented at drama - he has a line in this years Xmas play - 'woof woof' . I don't expect those that are good in his class to be forced to give up a part for him. He can find other things to be good at (he's pretty sporty).

To me 'hot-housing' is encouraging them to do lot's of aceademic things beyond what a child their age would normally be doing - so tutor at 4/5 yo.

I don't deny there are many very academically able children, some of whom are gifted, but I think when a 5/6 yo is coming home from school and being tutored for 1-2 hours an evening - and it does happen! then it's often the parents arranging that because of their child's abilities and therefore they are missing out on the social side of things. I know children who have had this lifestyle and and have said at 5/6yo that they enjoy it, that it's good for them and they are able so need to learn more than school can teach them. Their ideas IMO come from their parents. I have seen 3 children with this lifestyle and 2 of those rebelled at 12 and 14 yo. The 3rd continued to do well and got into a top university - on his 3rd year he was barley scraping a first and commited suicide because he was too embarrassed to get a 2:1.

Again these are my experiences - these are the negative ones. I have not seen people be negative about gifted children but have witnessed the effect it can have.

I guess with everything it's very hard to find the balance - what works for onr gifted child won't for another.

youarekidding these young suicides are the worst thing it's possible to imagine, why do these parents push their kids?