AIBU to think people shouldnt be getting money for having children?

[normality]

i know it is is controversal but i dont understand why some people feel the entitlement to get money for having children and aibu to think it should stop?

I think that if people want children then they should have them but they should not feel they are entitled for some kind of monetary hand out for having them

I especially feel like getting money for being pregnant like the sure start grant, maternity grant, healthy start vouchers ect should not happen because if you cant afford to have a child why should the goverment pay you to do this? what about the people who do not have any children and choose not to or can not why should they miss out on multiple grants and vouchers when they are paying more and more taxes to support the people who choose to have children and then choose not to work?

• i have a dd and although i wanted a large family i could not afford to have more than one child so stopped but never claimed any grants ect because i did not want to be paid for being pregnant as it was my choice

crazynannaFri 04-Nov-11 19:46:58 who are you addressing?

xenia i really do hope no one in your family ever know sickness , disbaility etc and google when bored becuase what would they think about you then

I managed to pass my 11+ with no tutoring or preparation.

Are the children in Bucks not intelligent enough to pass without it?

Yes, there are a very small minority of people out there claiming benefits because they don't want to work. But there's an awful lot more people claiming because they have been made redundant. People in their 50s who many won't employ because they see them as too old. Single parents, who are bringing up their children on their own, through no fault of their own, who cannot find a job and earn enough to afford childcare. Parents of disabled children who get no respite whatsoever and have to rely on themselves. How would you suggest they get back into work?

Most of the people I know who are currently having to live off benefits would love to be able to work or to find a job. The job section in my local paper has gone down from 800 jobs a week being advertised to 150 a week.

I don't believe some of you have any idea what you are talking about. And sincerely hope you never find yourselves having to rely on the pittance that is handed out by the benefit system.

Just calculated what our family would receive for our family of 2 non working adults and 4 children, were we still living in our old house in East Kent, were we on JSA, CTC, housing benefit (covering low end 4 bed house where we used to live renting at £800 per month), council tax benefit, free school meals for 4 children, no disability premiums. So we would get in those benefits for the year..
£24,500 per year
That's about £5000 less than what earn now, so we in effect work full time on e parent and 2/3 time another parent, for just that much more, wondering whether I should return to the UK and deliberately go unemployed?

No-one knows what life will throw at them really. My dad worked for 40 years at the same firm. In the early days he was on crap apprentice wages and my mum was dying in hospital in London. He had 2 children to feed and could not afford the trainfare to visit. He asked for help and was told none was available as he was working. He cried telling me this years on.

Yeah do it ,go on live the life of Riley

TheRealTillyMinto The perfect one..Xenia

Natation "Wondering whether I should return to the UK"

Theres your issue right there. I dont know where you are living now and what the living costs are like but £24,500 doesnt go very far with 4 children. I should know, we are on about 5k more (so about the same as you) with 6 (in a working family btw before anyone gets the wrong idea!). Housing benefit is included in that figure but it no longer covers 100% rent, it is capped by area and if you are living in a house that costs more than that (even if there is nowhere cheaper in your area) you have to find the shortfall. Gas and Electricity is more expensive if you use a pre-payment meter as you dont get the DD discount and you pay for the use of the meter. You cant get any form of "normal" credit if something goes wrong such a blown up washing machine or similar, so you must rely on doorstep loans or rip off companies like Brighthouse (look at their prices and compare it to the same item in Argos and then add on the interest, it is outrageous!).
I was once a single mother, through no choice of my own, living on benefits so that how I know this. I was lucky that it was for a short time before I could get a job but it was no picnic even for 1 year.

Life on benefits is only the life of Riley if you dont expect much out of life in the first place.

TheRealTillyMinto Oh just read your post...I see the confusion.
No,not your post

The article linked to about Merthyr Tydfil was also made into a BBC TV programme. It concluded that many doctors were advising their patients to claim IB. The reason for this was because with the closure of the mines, the miners - who usually had no other skills - were virtually unemployable. Even if they had moved, they would have still been unemployable. They knew this and many of them became depressed - don't forget that in the 80s the role of the man as 'breadwinner' was far more entrenched than it was now (and it's still pretty ingrained now). Not clinically depressed, but enough so that their Doctors - who knew these men would not be able to work anyway - were recommending they claim Incapacity Benefit.

Regardless of whether you consider it fraudulent or compassionate, the fact remains that most of these men weren't employable. They could have moved half way around the country but in a low-skilled labour market that was absolutely saturated, country-wide, with people in exactly the same situation, meant they still wouldn't get a job.

The same thing is happening now. People who have worked but have lost their jobs are fighting for roles that are massively over-subscribed. There are always going to be those who fail to get a job, and it isn't necessarily because of lack of effort. There are people who have no desire to work and lack the commitment to hold down a job even if they did get one, but they are in a minority. And if we examine them, we have to ask ourselves, why are they so employable? Why have they left skill with no work ethic, barely literate, lacking in ambition, etc. Because those who have are not just lazy but they have been failed along the way - either by their own parents or by the education system supposed to offer a way out of this trap. That's what I want to see changed.

And I am far from convinced that the 'on your bike' lesson about seeking work is desirable even if it does lead to a greater likelihood of being employed (and, as I've just written above, I don't think it does, since unless you have the desired skills, you won't get a job wherever you are). All this does is break up communities. It breaks up extended families - so removing family support that would otherwise enable those with children to work. It reduces a sense of community, which in turn leads to increased crime, less social cohesion, and decreased personal responsibility because the community isn't close-knit enough to self-regulate any more.

The different views don't matter. The nation has run out of money so there will be less and that will affect a lot of people.

The unfairnesses described on the thread about being better off not working are the core of most people's discontent. If there were compulsory work fare that would seem a little more just.

I am not saying all women and men should return to work when a baby is 2 weeks old but if you don't break your career you do tend to do better so we all make a choice. Not everyone can be blessed with my strength and health although if they take my advice above on that ( no drinking smoking take exercise, healthy weight etc) they might well find life gets a bit easier and health improves.

It's just...shit happens, you know? I got married and accidentally fell pregnant. The three of us are doing fine but...what if DH lost his job? What if he fecked off and left me? What if DS had turned out to be a multiple birth?

I have a job. I work part time because I want to be with DS. I could work full time and suppose I would have to if anything happened to DH, but I definitely couldn't afford the childcare on what I could make.

And yes, well done you who have fabulous jobs and degrees and what not. Do you know what I do? I am a 1:1 aide. I work with children teachers can't handle on their own and I am very, very good at it. I make less than 7 pounds an hour.

Is my contribution to society "worthwhile" even though I couldn't make enough to support myself and DS alone?

Great post Sunshine

If putting my baby in childcare when she was barely out of my womb for the sake of a job is being strong, then I'll stay weak thanks.

But we are in 2011. The mines closures were 20-25 years ago. We had a Labour government for what 14 years? The current system has failed these people but we overspent when times were good. And now times ain't good
reducing benefits will, I believe, incentivise people to find their own way out. For me, despiration is the mother of invention. The alternative is another generation going the same way. Yet another getting by in benefits

If benefits are paid too low, why do many people choose to have a child when their income won't be enough for the needs of that child?

Can all the people talking about "why are you putting your child into childcare that young, why bother having them" fuck right off.

Do you have the same level of vitriol for the husbands of the women you're attacking? The fathers of the babies in question?

Why, if I am medically able and no problems, are mothers like me, who went back to work 4 months after having DCs, getting attacked?

My husband is as much of a parent as me, he has just as much responsibility to take care of the children and earn a living as me.

So why do some posters think it's absolutely fine to pass judgement on women like me? Do you not realise how offensive that is?

Sorry to derail the thread, but I have no idea why people like Bogeymanface thinks it's okay to say shit like that and act all high and mighty.

Xenia what on earth are you talking about?

Ds1 was 11lb 2 at birth, I was perfectly healthy but there is no way I could have gone back to work after 2 weeks, I could hardly walk at that point.

Ds2 was 5 weeks early due to pprom, again nothing wrong with my health but he spent his first week in hospital

Ds3 was 8 weeks early due to pprom again nothing to do with my health. He spent 2 weeks in hospital

Not that it matters as I would rather have chopped my arm off than left my new born baby for the sake of a job. Why did you bother having children

So TheRealTillyMinto if youth unemployment is at an all time high ,where are the jobs?

If people are being made redundant and I know loads ,where are the jobs?

Add Moominsarescary to that rant.

Aside from medical issues (which is fair enough), why is a mother less caring for going back to work a few weeks after having DCs?

My husband took 2 weeks of paternity leave. Does it make him a bad father? No? Well why are you attacking Zenia then?

"we will get someone saying that they have 4 children, trying to get a job but nothing around, nothing fits in with school hours and school holidays, dont want to move from the area I am living in now, my Mum lives around the corner and I would miss her, I get more on benefits, would reallly like to work but as I messed around at school (and spolit it for others!) I have no qualifications, I have 3 children so dont have time to study for anything and btw I did once pay tax so I am 'entitled'"

Rocky that sounds a bit like me, 4 kids, can't move out of the shit area we live in as DS accesses a very good SN school and support. Didn't mess around at school but bullies did put me off. i even had a mum who was so depressed after dad left she was out of work for years so lived on benefits.
Am now going to college and uni to train as a midwife, will hopefully fill some of the huge shortage. I will get into huge student debt doing so but it will allow is to have a decent wage whilst dp cares for the dc's.
Some of us scroungers want to pay our way

Because IMO someone who carries a baby for 9 months and then has no problem what so ever leaving it 2 weeks after birth when they can obviously afford to stay at home longer is just odd

By the way I couldn't give a crap if you went back to work after 4 months, after ds2 I started back after 5 months and then it was only out of necessity. But two weeks? and she thinks everyone else should do the same

But who are you to dictate what is "normal" and what is "odd"? I'd suggest you keep your judgey beak out, frankly. If child development experts cannot agree on a precise line where you're harming your child if you don't do X, who are you to think you know what's best for couples in such a sweeping way?

Well, OP has already accomplished something by getting 723 messages - not bad if it is a first post! The worst thing - worse than having others hijack your thread or having a go at you - is to be ignored. To be left alone. Not a single reply. It's never happened to me. But I've seen a couple of post where this has been the case, and felt a bit bad for them!

gammy, to be fair - we were talking 2 weeks - a time when most women would barely have recovered from giving birth. No one is "dictating" it is wrong to put an older baby in childcare.