to want to tell them to get stuffed?

[Rhubarb0oooo]

I'll fully accept the verdict

I am a copywriter and have been working for one client for a year now. They offer regular work but it's really hard to do, for instance I have to write 40 short articles promoting their scaffolding site that contains 40 odd keywords that need to be included in the article, but each and every article HAS to be unique and different. For this I just charge £12 each which is very cheap, but they are regular clients.

Last week I was really ill - both ends if you must know - but when I emailed all my clients to say so, they wanted to know if I could fit in 3 difficult articles for them. I managed to do so and took on a new job of writing 46 100 word paragraphs each with a different keyword and a relevant example of their recent work and for this they are paying £2.50 per 100 word paragraph.

They have seen 4 examples which they said were ok and wanted me to send 25 finished ones to them before the weekend. I worked whilst ill and during the evening to get it done. Today they have sent me a list of corrections and want me to basically re-write each one.

I've had enough of them. They don't pay me nearly enough and I'm fed up of working my arse off for their every whim and demand. Yet they are regular clients and I'm a bit scared of not being able to replace them very easily, although I've not really had time to try hard.

Should I tell them to get stuffed? I'm feeling really fed up today of having all that hard work slagged off.

What rate would make the job worth doing? Ask them to pay that or dump them .

Rather than saying get stuffed and lose the client, change your tariff. Extra for last minute work and extra for rewrites.

Definitely increase your rates. How long does an article take, on average? You need to be earning a decent hourly wage for your work, which it doesn't sound like you are getting at the moment. Obviously you want regular customers, and will charge them a bit less because of it, but if they want a lot of extra work and short deadlines, then you need to charge them accordingly.

They did offer to pay more once for an article that they kept changing. Trouble is that they often ask for the impossible.

Right now for instance, 46, 100 word paragraphs on scaffolding. That's because they offer their services to 46 areas. They've asked me to provide examples of previous work done for each area but not every area has previous work, so I can't. Their email has reiterated that this is what they want and it's missing in the 25 paras I have sent them. I feel like shouting BUT YOU DON'T HAVE EXAMPLES FOR EVERY SODDING AREA! They give me sketchy details of what they want and then claim that their guidance notes are sufficient. But they aren't. When I point this out to them they just repeat the instruction that every area must have an example.

I know they are getting a bloody good deal from me and I do feel they are taking the piss now. I cannot provide them with what they want because they don't tell me what they want.

I know I'm a good copywriter as none of my other clients complain and I rarely get an article back for changes. Most clients come back for more work so I must be doing something right, but these people are bloody hard work and I'm getting more than annoyed.

I have written out a draft email, see what you think? It needs finishing:

"Not all the areas have a portfolio and some of the portfolios are all the same - solar panels for instance. There is only so many times I can quote solar panels! So to be fair, where I have found an instance to use previous jobs I have done so and where I haven't I have looked to services you offer.

I will go over these again for you and see what else needs to be done.

Being honest, I do have a client that pays £2.50 for 30-50 words so I do hope you don't think my prices too high for the standards of work. Also coming up to Christmas I do a lot of work for gift sites and these are getting busy."

As I say, it needs finishing.

Put your charges up, - you are wildly undercharging.

If they are willing to pay, then at least you'll be getting proper remuneration for your work, which will make their bastardiness easier to bear.

If they aren't then you will lose them, but you won't have to put up with them being demanding and treating you badly.

How much would you actually lose by dumping them, - would it be hard to make ends meet? For the time involved, you could get several other clients who will pay more, so if you can manage for a short time without that income while you find new clients, I'd get rid.

Life's too short to be filled advantage taking gits.

My God! You are charging far too little - clients can ask for changes but you can charge them for the inconvenience, especially when the changes are last minute and you are ill.

Look at the national union of journalists website Rate for the Job section. (I know you are a copywriter but it has the going rate for writing jobs).

Hope you get the outcome you want.

Shouldn't they be telling you what they want included in each article? I've no experience of copywriting, but if someone asked me to write documentation for my work and said "include relevant examples" I'd go back to them to get them to tell me what the example ought to be, if I didn't have one available. I know it's up to you to word things in an appealing way, but the content must be their problem surely?

They really do sound like they are taking the piss if they can't tell you any examples, yet they expect you to think them up!

No no no no no - don't send that email.

You need to get much more business like - firmer and less emotional!!

Don't send it.

The examples are on their website which I find.
Can anyone suggest a more business-like response to them?

You're being massively underpaid. I second flicka's advice about checking the NUJ's rates.

I would be more direct than that tbh - you need to list the sites that don't have examples and then ask them outright what they want you to use as examples for those sites. At the moment it seems you are spoonfeeding them a bit and they are taking advantage of you. If they faff around and don't give you the info you will eventually come up with a solution for them. Stop doing that. It's their business and therefore their own responsibility.

I would also send them a very bland 'standard round robin' type letter saying with effect from X date my charges will be: and list charges that, as others have said, will actually make the work worthwhile.

You need to think about a couple of things before you reply.

• Would you be better off charging them an hourly rate? Or you could look at a 'First Copy' charge and a 'Rewrite' charge. You can't charge a 'set piece' rate and then be correcting it and not charging them any extra.

• Are you charging them for all of this assembling of portfolios? You have, so far, been paid to write set pieces, not organise their advertising campaigns (well I assume so as you haven't said otherwise).

It seems pretty clear that you would be happier working for other clients - so get out there, get other clients and in the meantime be a bit firmer with these guys.

Do not disclose your other business nor the rates you charge - it just makes you look completely unprofessional.

So are you charging them for the time it takes you to dig through their website looking for non-existent examples? I'm guessing not....

"I have checked through your website to look for examples for the listed paragraphs, and have been unable to find any. If you wish examples to be added, please provide me with details. I am sure you will understand that it takes a considerable amount of time to look through all areas of your website and this makes these pieces of work uneconomic for me to undertake by this method.

On that note, I should also inform you that from x date my rate will be increasing to y for z to cover the time it takes for me to carry out these tasks and provide the level of service you expect."

YANBU. They're asking you to write spam for them.

Ugh, I hate clients like this! Basically you have made their lives easy and they have become very very lazy in their briefing because they know you will just pick up the slack. They WILL continue to do so as long as they feel that they are doing you a favour by giving you work.

Believe me, cutting your losses with them will give you time to source decent clients at a decent rate. It sounds like most of your time is spent working hard for pittance. The hardest thing about being self-employed is knowing when to say no!

I would give them an ultimatum and see what happens. If they up their rates and think twice before briefing you then you win. If they say no thanks then you will get back several hours a week to get some reasonable income elsewhere. Don't be afraid to use your other clients as contacts.

I would say something like this:

Thank you for your feedback. As I have explained before, I am afraid I am unable to fulfil all of your requirements with the company information I have access to. Please could you send through specific examples for each of these areas that I can use now and in the future?

As you are aware, my original commission rate for this work included some research and minimal amends time.

If you wish to make these substantial amends and increase my research time from the original brief that I accepted then I will have to charge for my time as I do with my other clients.

My current rates are much higher than the rates I agreed with you in xxx. As a gesture of goodwill to an existing client, I have kept my rates at the same level up until now.

However, I will be charging my standard rates from now on. These are:

1. Per word rate for original briefed job = x. This includes 30 minutes of amends per xx words (making sure that covers several of those paragraphs, not per para!)
2. Amends above this time or as a result of a changed brief are charged at x per hour or part of.
3. Additional amends will be quoted for in advance and before work is undertaken.

I am keen to continue our working relationship but I feel that the rate you are being charged and the work level required are now too far apart to make this a workable contract.

I look forward to hearing from you.

OK Collective email writing here :)

A bit like a round-robin!!

Dear x

I am unable complete the profiles with the company information I have access to. If you wish this information to be included, you will need to send through specific examples for each of these areas.

As you are aware, my original commission rate for this work did not include research and included only minimal amends time. If you wish to make substantial amends to these documents then I will have to charge for my time. It will cost you £xyx to have this done.

I have included the new rates schedule for 2012 to enable you to budget.

If you require any further work to be done before 2012 please let me know as soon as possible as this is an incredibly busy time of the year for me and I wouldn't like to disappoint you by not being able to accommodate you.

Kind regards

Then do up a new rates schedule for them - make it worth your while!!!!

Cheers guys
The back story is that they were recommended to me when I first started out and didn't have a clue what I was doing. So I kinda always felt obliged, as they were providing regular work, to keep them on the same terms as we started out with.

They have offered more money for some articles that they admit, they have wanted excess changes to. However just recently the workload has become too much.
I charge them £12 per article which has steadily gone up in word count from around 500 words to nearer 1,000 so I upped those longer articles to £14.
Originally I said no to this area write-up and they offered £2.50 per para thinking they were being generous.
I don't charge for amendments as this is one of my selling points and most clients hardly ever send any back for changes, but these guys are different.
Sometimes they hang onto an article for a week before giving me loads of changes to make to it.

So per the email, how about this:

Many thanks for the feedback. I have taken your comments on board and have found xx number of areas without a portfolio of previous work done and xx number which list the same examples, i.e. solar panels. For these areas I have tried therefore to focus on a particular service you offer such as staircase scaffolding. If you would prefer me to focus on something else please do say so.

I shall look through the entire copy again for word repetitions and other amendments and will correct where necessary.

However I am spending an inordinate amount of time on research for each area examples and the services you offer and feel that the price of £2.50 per area does not reflect the difficulty of the task or the usual rates for copywriters according to the National Union of Journalists. Whilst I am happy to finish the copy at the quoted price and offer discounts for regular clients, I feel that I must in future include a fair and reasonable quote for multiple amendments.

Good grief OP - I charge (and get) £125 per hour for copywriting. Are you mad?

yes, you've got to make it clear that they are paying you for writing the copy, not researching the information needed to write the copy.

Still too apologetic! They are taking advantage of you. I much prefer chipping or kasbah's suggestions and if I were your client and received emails like theirs I would look upon them as professional and polite and I would know I had a clear commercial/business choice to make. I doubt that they will drop you because to find a new copywriter they will have to pay the correct rates.

I don't think you should ever hesitate to charge for your work. If they ask you to do more work, you charge more - it really should be that simple. I like the idea of the 2012 rate card (and make sure you think about it before you send it so that you cover all eventualities). That way, you're not dropping them in it, you're just making it clear that you are not going to be a doormat any longer.

copywriters round here charge between £20 and £25 per hour. I think charging by time spent is far better for you in this instance. Tell them you're re-structuring?

£12 per article is very cheap.

I have online businesses and we pay £15, the subject is much easier too!

If you need to do research and they did not provide the information in the first place, then you can charge extra for these article right now.

Bin them rhubs. You are a brilliant copywriter and you don't need this hassle. Sounds like they are looking to find fault for the sake of it.

I really like Kasbah's email. Please send something along those lines. And consider charging an hourly rate in future with a higher rate if short notice. I imagine the poor, late briefing and need for lengthy amendments will disappear if you do that. At the moment your rate is so low they might as well pass all the shit onto you rather than do the job properly themselves in the first place.

carabos, apparently companies are stuck for decent copywriters but I don't see any evidence of that. I have a website and lots of examples of my work but I am not getting the work in.
I know I am being underpaid, but when you need the work and they are providing plenty, you don't stop to argue do you?

I have just sent this email:

Thanks for the feedback and I will take your comments on board. However there are some areas that do not have previous work portfolios and many areas that have repeated work porfolios such as fitting solar panels. For these areas I have tried to mention the various services you offer, going down the list of services alphabetically. Repetition is something that I shall try to avoid and I will go through the areas to see which are the culprits, however with keywords such as

Scaffolding Costs "AREA" x2
Scaffolding Prices "AREA" - x2

Cost of Scaffolding "AREA" - x1

Scaffolding Hire Prices "AREA" - x1

"AREA" scaffolding costs - x1
"AREA" Scaffolding Prices - x1
"AREA" Cost of Scaffolding - x1
"AREA" Scaffolding Hire Prices - x1

It is difficult to insert those repetitive keywords 10 times and not have a similar theme to the articles.

I have to research each and every area to find out what previous examples, if any, I can use; which services you offer and how best to fit the keyterms in with the services offered that does not repeat the other paragraphs. If I have failed to do this then I will endeavour to put this right, however multiple amendments in a short timeframe may incur additional charges.

May I also ask that you approach another copywriter to help with the workload you have as I am getting very busy on the run up to Christmas and may have to increase my charges as a result of increased demand.

I shall in the meantime be more than happy to continue to do write-ups for scaffolding and xxx as per previous arrangements.

I will be in touch with my new price structure in due course.

Regards