to want to tell them to get stuffed?

[Rhubarb0oooo]

I'll fully accept the verdict

I am a copywriter and have been working for one client for a year now. They offer regular work but it's really hard to do, for instance I have to write 40 short articles promoting their scaffolding site that contains 40 odd keywords that need to be included in the article, but each and every article HAS to be unique and different. For this I just charge £12 each which is very cheap, but they are regular clients.

Last week I was really ill - both ends if you must know - but when I emailed all my clients to say so, they wanted to know if I could fit in 3 difficult articles for them. I managed to do so and took on a new job of writing 46 100 word paragraphs each with a different keyword and a relevant example of their recent work and for this they are paying £2.50 per 100 word paragraph.

They have seen 4 examples which they said were ok and wanted me to send 25 finished ones to them before the weekend. I worked whilst ill and during the evening to get it done. Today they have sent me a list of corrections and want me to basically re-write each one.

I've had enough of them. They don't pay me nearly enough and I'm fed up of working my arse off for their every whim and demand. Yet they are regular clients and I'm a bit scared of not being able to replace them very easily, although I've not really had time to try hard.

Should I tell them to get stuffed? I'm feeling really fed up today of having all that hard work slagged off.

I've just commissioned copywriting for a new website and I'm paying £65 per hour for 1.5 hours per page (this is at mates rates as well) - I'm providing the jist of the content as it's reasonably specialised, and they are making it web-friendly. Same company charge £650+ per day if actual research is needed. Put your rates up woman!

Can I ask where you are all going for your copywriters? Because I'm obviously doing something wrong as I haven't had any new clients now for 6 months.

Hope Mumsnet don't mind, but here is my website. Would you employ me based on the info provided there? Hope you don't mind doling out this advice btw, am happy to receive criticisms if it helps get me some work rolling in!

have PMed you

Personally I found the white text on black background quite hard to read, so for me that distracted from working out if I liked your writing style (I do btw!)

Re the pricing, as a writing numpty, it's not clear how long each of the pieces you quote for actually are, what do I get in an ezine for example?

Maybe you're not niche enough? Your portfolio is pretty varied, perhaps you need to make yourself more specialist?

Cheers matey, I think the text needs to be changed to Tahoma which I will do and yes, perhaps more specific on article length.

I thought that SEO copywriting was fairly niche in itself? I guess what my site is saying is that I'll take whatever comes
Although I did turn down the opportunity to write product descriptions for sex toys. I didn't feel I had the right experience

I also found the black background / white text comb difficult to read. Also I tried googling for a copywriter and your name didn't come up in the first 6 pages. Given what you do perhaps you could rejig that. I also couldn't readily see where you were based (I wanted to google copywriter plus town to see if I could find you more readily). I realise it may not affect which work you could take on but I personally would like to see that.

Hmmm. Ok will do changes tomorrow.
Ghoul, copywriter is a highly competitive SEO keyword and most who are on the top 3 pages have paid to be there (they pay for links). I have a few links and the term copywriter is featured heavily, but my name is what I trade on. People read an article, see who the author is and google that author.

I could put town in I guess, getting on google maps is free so if someone where to type in Copywriter in Oldham (not that I live there anymore) my name would come up on those little maps.

I have to say though, all of my work so far has come via recommendation and word of mouth. I get the impression that many companies use agencies or will use recommendations rather than google for copywriters. I need to spend more time using business forums I think.

Thanks for all the input - greatly appreciated. Will come back to this tomorrow.

We (or rather DH) uses LinkedIn A LOT and we've picked up clients from referrals from there (for specialist tax advice). Plus he's got work from business networking things in our area, although it's taken about 6-12 months for actual clients to filter through. Maybe look at women in business things if you don't like the boys club atmosphere of a lot of these type of things (I personally can't stand it, so DH does all the schmoozing).

I work as a copywriter too so here's some advice I hope you'll take.

Stop charging by the article, charge by the hour! Then when they come to you with the work you give them a quote based on how long YOU think it's going to take. If they aren't happy with the quote tell them they can get a lower quote if they ask for less to be done. Charging by the article means you are paid the same regardless of how hard the job is - this is clearly crazy!

If they want changes made to the articles, no problem. Charge them by the hour again. By charging hourly you're also covering your research time which can be considerable. If they aren't happy with your quote they can go find someone else to do it and they'll be bloody lucky to find anyone charging the pittance you are.

45 articles on scaffolding! Holy Jesus it makes my blood run cold just thinking about it.

Just read your site. I too didn't like the white on black (too difficult to read) and also your style is very pally - I think you could be more professional (colder); also much shorter (concise). YOu also say 'we don't claim to be SEO experts' - I would only say what you are good at, not what you are not.

what does SEO mean btw (der)

Right, have spent the morning twiddling about with the site and I hope you'll find it new and improved! New and Improved Website!

I have taken all your ideas and suggestions on board and am starting to charge per hour. I've also applied to appear on Google Maps to within a 100 mile radius and have optimised my search terms although it will be a while before these take effect with Google.

I do have an account on LinkedIn but to be honest it doesn't do much! I need people to befriend me!

Cheers springydaffs (please don't use my real name on Mumsnet, I'm just a bit paranoid about it being highly searchable).

You are right about the main page and I might just list my services on that page with links explaining what a copywriter is/does and about SEO.

I chose brown as it's a bit easier on the eye - there can be too much black - and it fits in with my main image.

Hopefully these changes will improve my status and I might start getting a bit more work rolling in! (Do I have the charges more or less right now?)

the text on your pages menu is still very small. Is that because you can't fit all the words on in a smaller text?

On my website, the menu buttons can be enlarged (drag and drop thing)

YOur name is on your site Rhubarb - the one you linked us to!

Springdaffs - I know, but if you search my name on Google then my site comes up. However if someone mentions it on here then not only will my site come up but also Mumsnet and potential clients will be able to read all about this thread, which is not good.

In fact I'm so paranoid about keeping myself off the internet that my work is done in my maiden name

nickelbabe, do you think so? I thought 11 was the standard height for text?
I could put in a few special effects and jazz it up a bit?

fair enough, I'll get it deleted - no worries, and apologies

jazz it down I'd say but I've said enough

Hiya - just piling in. I work at a B2B communications agency doing advertising, websites, etc for engineering, heavy industry, professional serives, etc. We keep a roster of copywriters on file so that we can call on them as necessary, paying them by the hour. The Creative Services Manager manages the roster.

If you send letters or emails of introduction to advertising/marketing agencies asking for you details to be put on file, you'll maximise your chances of being called when relevant projects come in. We've never Googled to find a copywriter.

This has probably been covered but I'm stealth-MNing at work and can't read the whole thread.

The main text is fine, it's just the side menu that's a bit small.
:)

also, i'm wondering about the contrast between the text and the background - it seems to be a beige or a grey, and it fades a bit - can you make it a whiter shade so that it is a bit easier to read?

I think it's very dark, rhubs. Is there any way to not have the black? and maybe a lighter brown that doesn't look like poo

And - although since you had to rewrite MY website I don't know what I'm thinking offering advice on yours - I really wouldn't say on there that you ask for money upfront until you get to know them better. Have something in your terms and conditions certainly, but putting it on the website, imo, doesn't give the best impression. I don't think you need how and when you invoice, that's more a detailed t&c thing. You could have a t&c page with your full conditions in incomprehensible legal language

and what about instead of do you need a copywriter - why you need a copywriter?

No worries springdaffs, whose going to look up my first name? I was just worried in case you mentioned my full name.
I thought it best jazzed down too

Thanks Undertone, I shall do that.

I thought that nickelbabe but wondered if white wasn't too bright? I shall look at it again and aim to increase the text size for the side menu.

whose??? I'll never get a job if I don't pay more attention to my grammar!

who's obviously.

The rates you are getting from these people are beyond terrible. My rule is never burn your boats - I never tell even the worst clients where they can stick their crappy job, in case one day I'm desperate! - but politely say you don't have time at the moment for work paying these rates, as you are earning more from other clients. If they ask what to pay you, name a proper rate - at LEAST £30/hour (and many people I know would be horrified at how low that is!) or £200/1000 words.

Re your site, I have a friend who is a very successful copywriter (I'm not, I do something slightly different) and her site's front page is very simple, with a few testimonials and a photo of her on it. Ask clients for testimonials that you can quote eg it might be something like "Reliable, great to work with and her copy flows perfectly". Then have very clear links to other pages like sample copy, sample clients, expertise, FAQS, etc. - and clear contact details at the bottom. I find your front page a bit wordy and over-specific which might put off a wider range of clients.

On the plus site your site looks very professional and beautiful so don't change that.

You obviously have experience so what I would also do is put together a simple, straightforward mailshot with examples of your work, a short covering letter offering your services, and send out 100 copies to potential clients (advertising/design agencies, web agencies etc etc and whoever else you know of in your field). Doing this always gets results for me.

just messing around with fonts and sizes and colours