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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to want to tell them to get stuffed?

100 replies

Rhubarb0oooo · 01/11/2011 14:35

I'll fully accept the verdict Smile

I am a copywriter and have been working for one client for a year now. They offer regular work but it's really hard to do, for instance I have to write 40 short articles promoting their scaffolding site that contains 40 odd keywords that need to be included in the article, but each and every article HAS to be unique and different. For this I just charge £12 each which is very cheap, but they are regular clients.

Last week I was really ill - both ends if you must know - but when I emailed all my clients to say so, they wanted to know if I could fit in 3 difficult articles for them. I managed to do so and took on a new job of writing 46 100 word paragraphs each with a different keyword and a relevant example of their recent work and for this they are paying £2.50 per 100 word paragraph.

They have seen 4 examples which they said were ok and wanted me to send 25 finished ones to them before the weekend. I worked whilst ill and during the evening to get it done. Today they have sent me a list of corrections and want me to basically re-write each one.

I've had enough of them. They don't pay me nearly enough and I'm fed up of working my arse off for their every whim and demand. Yet they are regular clients and I'm a bit scared of not being able to replace them very easily, although I've not really had time to try hard.

Should I tell them to get stuffed? I'm feeling really fed up today of having all that hard work slagged off.

OP posts:
nickelbabe · 02/11/2011 12:11

If you like, you could do me a free copy for a reference Wink

Ghoulwithadragontattoo · 02/11/2011 12:21

I think the stuff about your charging structure is much better now. I'm still finding it hard to read with such a dark background though. And I do find the text a bit small.

Original poster
Rhubarb0oooo · 02/11/2011 12:38

Right, I think I've made all the changes I need to on the site. It's slate grey now, with larger text and a clearer sidebar (although I can't seem to change the font size of the menus).

I'll ask clients for testimonials as that is a great idea!

Nickelbabe - nice try Grin

Watch this space and thanks so much for all the advice, I feel a lot more confident now that I can get out there and get some work rolling in Smile

OP posts:
nickelbabe · 02/11/2011 13:19

I can't get the new version up - have you saved it?

nickelbabe · 02/11/2011 13:20
Wink
springydaffs · 02/11/2011 15:27

Looks great! though google bots? is that a typo? (or am I ignorant?) don't answer that

Original poster
Rhubarb0oooo · 02/11/2011 15:42

No, not a typo but a computer programme initiated by Google. Google bots crawl through websites picking up on things like broken links, keywords, etc. They are just automated programmes that saves human beings checking out the zillion and odd websites that are out there. They aren't foolproof but are updated regularly by Google to spot common issues.

Do you think I'm using complicated jargon? I don't want to befuddle potential clients!

OP posts:
Ghoulwithadragontattoo · 02/11/2011 15:42

It looks great. Just read your disabled weddings article too - very interesting (and well written of course)!

Original poster
Rhubarb0oooo · 02/11/2011 15:43

Googlebots

OP posts:
Original poster
Rhubarb0oooo · 02/11/2011 15:43
Smile
OP posts:
threestepsforward · 02/11/2011 15:46

Sympathies with you OP.

I'm having similar problems with a long-standing client. My trouble was they were my first ever client, so I didn't have the experience or foresight to put minimum charges etc. in place. All new clients I've picked up since have arrangements like this in place with me, so no problems there. In the past, if I accepted a 100 word job from this client and invoiced on the basis of words, instead of a minimum charge, I ended up with less than the minimum wage per hour.

Over the past year, it's been an excruciating task of upping my standard rates, putting in place minimum charges etc. with this long-time client, and it's been awful, they've fought me every step of the way (but I'm getting there!).

I was tempted to bin them many a time but, like you, I don't know if I can afford to lose a client who provides me with regular work, particularly when work from any source is never guaranteed (I'm a translator). I know they're happy with my work, which helps a bit when it comes to bargaining Grin

(Don't know if it's any help, but are there any forums for your profession? I posted about my troubles on a translators' forum and got loads of help plus some snotty comments about how disorganised I was and advice).

Good luck!

threestepsforward · 02/11/2011 15:46

woops, have now realised thread has moved on somewhat, sorry Blush

Original poster
Rhubarb0oooo · 02/11/2011 17:06

Aw thanks threesteps, that is exactly how I feel. They were one of my first clients and I am loathe to lose the work, but I do feel that I am slogging away for mere peanuts and sometimes it's best to cut your losses and use that free time to search out new clients.

They haven't replied to my email yet, so I don't know if they are going to accept the new terms or are busy trying to find someone who will do it for cheaper (good luck to them!).

Thanks for your support, much appreciated Smile

OP posts:
Sunshinenow · 02/11/2011 17:36

hi Rub

just had a quick look at your website. The first thing is there are lot of negative words like 'struggling' - maybe just be just me but I think it's better to talk about 'improving'.

Also a couple of techie things - when you click on the example links it doesn't open a new browser window. It is usually better to do this so that people can easily return to your site to look at other examples. Effectively you have lost your site if you click on any example sites and have to use the back button to find you again.

It is also not very clear how you get back to your home page (click your name at top) from the menu on the left.

I don't think you actually say what SEO is (search engine optimisation) - sometimes people need a helping hand - and I think it shows clear communication.

I also think the site is a bit to 'chatty' and 'wordy' for me.

Text too small and hard to read. And I would prefer light background dark text.

And finally - your scaffolding link doesn't work www.hampshirescaffoldingltd.co.uk/portchester.html - it says something about bad Karma which doesn't give a great impression.

It's a good site - please don't take this as too harsh and critical, I'm no expert, though I work in IT - but as you aren't getting much work maybe the website could be more of a 'shop front'.

any way good luck, and please ignore any comments if not useful.

threestepsforward · 02/11/2011 18:12

No worries Rhubarb, hope you get it sorted Smile

Stick to your guns! What kept me focused was knowing that what I was asking for was perfectly reasonable. If they find someone who's prepared to do it cheaper, there's a very big chance it will come back and bite them on the arse!

Original poster
Rhubarb0oooo · 03/11/2011 10:20

I've slightly re-worded the pages to put a more positive spin on things and make it less 'chatty' although I don't want to make huge changes to my style as I think that's one of my selling points.

sunshinenow - my home page is the page that the link takes you back to. There is now a link back to the home page on every page.
Every link does open in a new window, but the sidebar ones do not.

There is an explanation of SEO in 'Why you need a copywriter' and I've also added a link to that on the home page, although I reckon that if companies are looking for a copywriter they will have a good idea of what SEO is and I don't want to patronise them.

Links now fixed Smile

The jury is out on the text. I like it as it's different to other sites and I personally think that it's easy to read. Having looked at other sites like this one I find them too busy and prefer the simple look. But I am still working on the home page and the one that is up there now will be massively changed. It will still be simple though, just less wordy Smile

OP posts:
Original poster
Rhubarb0oooo · 03/11/2011 11:24

Right, home page has undergone complete transformation Smile

OP posts:
Original poster
Rhubarb0oooo · 03/11/2011 11:24

Oops, should put link in. Here it is!

OP posts:
nickelbabe · 03/11/2011 11:37

oooh! Grin

I like it.
bold, and to the point, while not losing any of the style you had before.

nickelbabe · 03/11/2011 11:39

oh, just clicked on links - your "what SEO does for your site" goes to "why you need a copywriter)
(sorry )

Original poster
Rhubarb0oooo · 03/11/2011 12:22

Not any more it doesn't! Wink
Sorry, was still updating it and hadn't quite finished the SEO page.

OP posts:
corygal · 03/11/2011 12:27

Rhubarb - you are scarily undercharging.

Bin them or get them to cough the going rate.

The going rate for your type of work is £250 a day and max 700 words. That's what our freelancers charge to supply content to 'a well-known building firm' for their website. Our charges are a lot higher as a firm similar to carabos - and they pay those without blinking.

Good luck.

corygal · 03/11/2011 12:34

I'm so horrified at the thought of anyone SE0ing pieces on scaffolding for £12 that I can't get up for lunch. My bottom is clenched in misery for you. Angry

Please slip away and spend the rest of the day looking for new clients.

Original poster
Rhubarb0oooo · 03/11/2011 12:36

They still haven't responded so I shall finish the piece I promised them and use my time more productively to seek out new work and to boldly go where no copywriter has gone before.....

wherever that may be?

OP posts:
gammygal · 03/11/2011 12:54

springydaffs, SEO stands for search engine optimisation - basically getting stuff into the first pages of search engines. Kind of like marketing, but online, if you see what I mean.

I've name changed to reply to this, as my normal login has post content linking back to some fairly embarassing stuff that I wouldn't want associated with my professional persona... but I couldn't resist replying here because there are some fundamentals which you need to tweak - I'm glad to see other MNers helping out, they've pinpointed some key things which I just want to add my voice to.

OP, I too work as a copywriter - and more and more these days I'm finding that the lucrative work is all about digital work. Ten years ago (when I set up as a freelance) I did work which had led on from my old employer/industry - again, I don't want to out myself, but basically I worked as a journalist in the building industry/construction/architecture. That led onto freelance writing, but these days a good 60 - 80% of my work is for online publications - I also have 3 web development agencies which I am on a retainer with.

That's really the key thing that I wanted to point out - your pricing structure is all wrong. Working on a piece basis doesn't seem to reflect your research time (always, always demand factual content OR add it onto your invoice as a unique item, with prior warning so that they can opt out if they like). It also doesn't count time for re-writes. You've essentially given this client the message that the contract is fulfilled when they're happy. No! Your contract is fulfilled when you supply the work as per the spec! Smile Re-writes I charge at half price, but my current client list is such that I barely ever have to do any.

It took me a long time to learn two things:

FIRSTLY
Not agreeing to a job because the spec was vague was worth it in the long run. Writing jobs whose scope is not defined (as yours isn't) are a red flag - it either means the person you're dealing with doesn't understand what they're asking you to do, or they understand and have decided to take the piss (e.g. refusing to pay until the job is done to their satisfaction - which, of course, they will decide on, amid ever-changing goalposts!). Neither is acceptable, long-term, on your client list.

SECONDLY
It's perfectly acceptable to fire your clients (albeit professionally - never burn bridges). It was 3 or 4 years in before I ever fired a client, and boy did it feel good when I did it. You realise your problem clients were the ones taking up more than the pay was worth i.e. if they are 40% of your billing, I've had clients who were taking up more like 50 - 70% of my working hours - madness. Not profitable. Or good for stress levels!

Apologies, the above appears to have been turned into a bit of an essay!