to want one, just one, coffee shop, cafe, eating place to be child free?

[NearlyMrsCustardsHardHat]

AIBU? Really?

All I ask for is that between the hours of 11 and 2 during the week my precious half hour lunch break is not interrupted by my ankles being rammed by a pushchair, or a grubby little urchin throwing food or wailing or just being within a 5 meter radius of me. It's not much. Actually, rewind, can I just ban the ineffectual mums that come with said urchins?

I love kids. I just don't love them between the hours of 8am and 6pm Monday to Friday.

AIBU to just want a small bit of child free/floppy parenting sanctuary?

I don't find it at all difficult-you just need to choose your place.

What kind of area are you talking about? Studenty areas offer few kids.

If you're in a city centre, just go somewhere small with cramped tables!

I will confess here to not particularly like taking my kids into places full of other people's badly behaved kids and those badly behaved kids' gobshite parents. We've had a couple of lunchtime experiences like that where DS1 has been horrified. And this is DS1 with ASD/ADHD and a right foul temper on him when the wind's blowing in the wrong direction. He loves the whole ritual of eating out, though and is far more adventurous than he is at home and has far better table manners, too! If there's one thing that ruins it, it's families where the kids whine and the parents whine back, constantly and loudly and sometimes even swearily.

Yanbu. I can't think of anywhere around here which is child-free at lunch; the Wetherspoons pub even has ceebies on tv during the day!

Even sadder, I've just realised there are NO independent cafes/coffee shops on the high street; all chain shite :(

Why do people who want children to be afraid if their parents in some Victoriana fantasy think all normal children are called Tarquin?

Do they also think all TV presenters are called Roger?

It's a good observation, OP, that the welcome introduction of regulations that make buildings accessible for wheelchair users has had the unintended consequence of meaning that babies and toddlers can get everywhere.

My children are horribly behaved, so I only bring them to places that can't be made any worse by their presence.

Although now I know that there are people so odious that they object to small children looking at them, I might avail myself of these lifts and ramps and impose my floppy parenting and children who dare to exist on the nasty fuckers.

Yes, SheCutOffTheirTails - that's what this thread is all about - small children looking at people.

There's the point... no, over there, about a mile to the left of you and round the corner. [/helpful [hsmile] ]

Flipping heck, this is clearly a light-hearted rant from someone who just wants a moment's peace from marauding children - and people have to go and get all offended and stuffy over it.

Why can't I have a lighthearted rant on a lighthearted ranty thread?

Seems to be the person missing the point and being all offended is you.

YANBU it would drive me crazy on my lunch break.

But luckily I work in an area where there is NOTHING for parents and kiddies to do. So, every starbucks, Pret, eCoffee Republic, Costa, Caffe Nero, etc, etc, etc is virtually child and buggy free. I cann't remember the last time I saw parents in any cafe in a 1 mile radius of where I work

And why are buggies so damn huge these days? They're like fecking tanks!

Local Cafe Nero has an infestation, it's likeva bloody panzer division in there :o

Its the omnipotent yak yak mc parents that got large
Not just the buggies

I am a floppy parent after a few stiff drinks :o

It is when inconsiderate parents inflict their children on you that it is tiresome. My recent collection includes:

Huge buggies that get in the way so you have to clamber over them.
Children dragging balloons on the ground then hitting you on the back of the head with said balloon.
Small lifts where parents hold their muddy-footed children so close to you you get mud on your clothes.

I can honestly say I never let my children do any of these, my children did not inconvenience others. Any inkling of poor behaviour and they were out of there as I am a tough old goat.

MrsCustard YANBU and I hope you find somewhere suitable to eat your lunch soon.

I don't think she is unreasonable for wanting a place to go for lunch where there are no children.

I do think moaning about a certain class of parent and their loathesome offspring makes her (and in particular some of her most vociferous supporters, who seem more into getting the boot into the kind of person they dislike) makes her seem like kind of a dick.

People who criticise "ineffectual mothers" give me a pain in my hole, being an ineffectual mother.

Whatme - the floppy parenting guru Lisa McKittridge recommends starting each day with a stiff G&T. Children are so much easier to bear from behind a veil of mild, but constant, drunkenness.

Did I miss the notification that children have been ranked somewhere below ethnic minorities and the disabled with respect to rights? Did they somehow get reclassified as something other than human beings?

I went to Cafe Rouge with my 6mo and I swear every table had a baby/toddler at it!

In my city, I know the regular haunts for parents with small children. Thankfully they tend to be large chains (which I avoid because I'd rather give my cash to an independent) which leaves the charming little ones for me, my usually non-wingey DD and the rest of the city who want a coffee in peace.

Yesterday, I went a a department store coffee shop (strange city, I was lost and it was raining) and a 3/4 yo girl was wandering freely around whilst her mother had a coffee. Child kept bumping into tables, bashing into people and her mother just sat there! She was adorable initially, bounding over and asking 'why does that baby have her head in your jumper?' but when she tried to put her finger in a bloke's victoria sponge the woman sat with him said very loudly, 'where is your mummy, hasn't she got some lovely toys to entertain you? ' which meant the child pestered her mummy rather than everyone else.

Absolutely YANBU.

I do thing the uk is terrible at integrating kids into everyday life - they are seen as a nuisance rather than an asset however better integration does not mean they should be allowed to run riot everywhere.

I think it would help enormously the better integration of kids if there were some definitive kid-free cafes where you could have a few glorious minutes of peace.

It's all about balance.

You have to look around.

I realise, that without having been consciously aware of it, I always choose places with no toddlers and small kids

So I NEVER go to a chain like Costa,Starbucks, Nero or a pizza place. Instead I go to a tiny "proper" Thai restaurant with no kids menu, or a tiny cafe with a wonky stair leading to tiny tables, or an old ladies soup and cake place, with dinky furniture and nowhere to put a pram....

never realised I did this though, IYSWIM.

YANBU. I took my kids to Frankie and Benny's yesterday lunchtime and was huffing and puffing to myself about the the other parents who had the cheek to bring their kids in too. But then I am a contrary and miserable old cow with one rule for myself and another for others. There must be somewhere near you? If not you will have to open a pop cafe for other like minded individuals, you'd make a fortune.

Oh fiendish that isn't what she meant at all.

I love seeing all the little ankle biters when out without the children. I just close my eyes, sip my mocha chocca macchiato vende skinny flat wet extra shot latte whilst thanking the lord that my kids are at home annoying the nanny

oh, and having later lunch works too. Most kids eat ridiculously early, like 12 or 1230, so go at 1:30 and all the kids will have gone

I absolutely agree Poppadum. Which is why when there's a thread like this it feels like "oh here we go, somewhere else children aren't wanted..." Add it to public transport, planes, restaurants, parks where dogs are, supermarkets blah blah blah.

If people were more child friendly generally then having places where children aren't would be fine. As it is it's just the latest in a long line and its no good having child friendly facilities if people without children moan about them all the time, as happens on MN a lot.

LOL @ Pessemistic :o

You and your "usually non-whingey" baby are the problem.

People who go to shit cafés with their children do so so that the charming independent places they actually like going are not spoiled by children "not whinging".

That why the "oh, it's just the terrible mothers with their bad parenting" is so silly. One day's charming sweetheart is another's marauding monster. And (almost) everyone thinks their child is the adorable exception.

If you go to in-store cafés, you should expect children to be there (gasp) walking around and talking. Same as if you go to an underage bar - it's a bit pointless to be aghast at drunken teenagers. Or you go to a wine bar beside a tv production company and are upset that all the rest of the people there are self-obsessed coked-up wankers.

That is true shecutofftheirtails - an angel child one day will be a marauding one the next.

The floppy parenting is when the angel child is broadly ignored rather than praised and engaged with, and when the marauding child is greeted with or worse, 'no Johnny, Johnny no. Don't do that. Look stop running or we will leave, stop it. Look eat your cakes. Sweetheart stop.....etc etc"
If I realised I had marauding child with me I tried to sort it but if I couldn't I wrapped cake in napkin, got take away cup for my coffee and left.

Socialising at cafes etc does not happen by a weird process of osmosis. The parent actively has to teach a child what behaviour is acceptable in a public place and what isn't. The idea that kids will just gradually think 'oooooh, I am not meant to shout' is why the children running around are sometimes 6 or 9 or even older.