Previouslyonlost can you update please

[deburca]

previously didnt want to hijack the other thread but was so impressed with you last time im dying to find out have you have managed to distance yourself from those horrible people.

anyone else out there wanting to know how previouslyonlost did it?

plupervert I'm starting to feel BAD writing about them now...because they just can't help themselves, it's like shooting fish in a barrel

I'm having a tough week, and just felt narked at someone trying to plan a lovely evening at our expense 'organise' me over something that I hadn't even got around to considering yet (Parent's Evening is THREE weeks away!)

Thank you for listening to my ranty moans, DH away and me the only adult in the house, if it wasn't for MN I think my head would explode

Oh, no, don't feel bad! They have done this to themselves! They could regain people's goodwill, but they can't be arsed, and are too tight.

plupervert Thank you...I must remind myself of their evil ways when my inherent good side threatens to take over.

Cheers, your 'outsider looking in' clarity is appreciated!

Not only can't they be bothered to win people back, they lose even more goodwill by being actively hypocritical and unpleasant (e.g. refusing to engage in Hallowe'en, then lying about it). They continue to believe they have a right to other people's time and effort, but are damned if they would be so demeaned.

Don't feel sorry for them. You know how MN hates an enabler!

POL, just guessing at your acronyms there cos I don't know the back story - LN = lovely neighbour and UEN = unpleasantly entitled/encroaching neighbour?

Glad it's working out better for you anyway :)

We have another BIL story here too - after Monday morning's little episode, of course MIL did SFA as usual. (for anyone confused I am in Australia so 11h ahead of you, my post looks like Sunday night). DH went over there, didn't get out of his car, just sat outside the house waiting for MIL to come out and go to the police with him, which she didn't. BIL came out and abused him, told him to "get off his property" (errr, not his, belongs to MIL) and other such pleasantries. DH came home, highly pissed off - wtf his mother expects him to do is anyone's guess, as he just inflames his brother and violence ensues.

So - that was Monday. Yesterday, MIL dropped by our house at 8am because the fuckwit had kicked off again - this time because she had said she was going to get a friend of hers, who is a professional mediator in these sort of situations, to talk to him. She didn't knock, because she saw DH was out (away overnight and not back yet), so she phoned DH - and he told her to go to the police. Did she? Did she fuck. Back home to more abuse. . So anyway, she did decide at about 10am that she would go to the police (Halle-fucking-luljah!) and DID! . So he is going to be placed under an AVO (see previous post) and I assume the police went out to the house to arrest him and remove him from it. This means he will no longer be able to live there - but will it make him any better? No. He will just run through the rest of his money (that he got from the sale of his house) and then come begging back again - and she will let him back in. Because she can't not.:(

I worry for when she dies - I've told DH that he can NOT take on the responsibility of this loser - he says he won't, but he will. He won't be able to help himself. The fuckwit came over to our house a few weeks ago, pleading poverty and DH lent him $150 - amazingly he DID get it back! - but I was livid. I know DH can do it if he wants to but it just demonstrates the same lack of strength that his mother shows - give him money to make him shut up and go away = facilitate his selfish fuckwitted behaviour.

:(

Thumbwitch (Spot on with LN's...UEN's are Urine Extracting Neighbours ...more commonly known as piss takers )

How long had BIL lived with MIL? and how old is he? I can understand a parent wanting to help their child but clearly BIL is an adult, and a violent and abusive one at that. Is it a guilt thing on MIL's part do you think? (Is with mine, though what exactly she has to feel guilty about is anyone's guess?...except not saying NO to BIL often enough perhaps)

There's NEVER any gratitude on the part of the person being helped/supported is there?! They just believe it's their right to get what they want...and they do get whatever they want which drives me nuts.

Your BIL sounds like a bully, a class A, foot stamping, tantrum throwing, spoilt baby - just like mine (no violence, just full of self pity, and 'poor me' when he drinks).

I'm glad that your MIL has reported him to the Police, it's a start. No FIL to help her deal with it?

Sorry, so many questions!

I'm like you, furious that someone is 'allowed' to get away with this behaviour simply because they are related...if it was a stranger, your FIRST call would be to the Police. Your poor DH, like mine, is probably guilt-ridden and torn between his Mother and Brother...it's sad.

MIL and FIL once had to go and clean a caravan that BIL had lived in...belonged to a friend and was beside house...he swore he wouldn't smoke in it as it was used for friend's family. Smoking was the least of it...vomit, urine, faeces, old food, cigarette burns...BIL left it in that state. MIL/FIL were so embarassed that they went and scrubbed the caravan for hours. Where was BIL? Back at in-laws house sleeping off his latest bender, and not the grace to even blush when he was told what they had had to do.

selfish fuckwitted behaviour? I'd say so.

POL - he is indeed a bully and "a class A, foot stamping, tantrum throwing, spoilt baby" - perfect. But his tendency to violence is disturbing and most of it is directed toward DH; their mum has said that if he does ever hit her then that is IT but I doubt she really means it either. :(

He is older than DH, 37 next week. He has lived away on and off but I warned DH when we moved here to Australia that it wouldn't take long before he came back - he was back within 6w of us arriving here. He wants to make sure DH isn't getting more than his fair share of anything.

Their Dad died when DH was nearly 18, this is probably part of the problem. MIL also confessed to pretty much giving up on continuing to "train" her 2 boys when they were teens because she was too busy looking after their Dad (long term sick) and working to keep the family going. But still - both boys had the same upbringing and DH doesn't behave as though all he has to do is throw a massive tantrum to get what he wants! So while that might have exacerbated BIL's behaviour, it's not the cause.

He was served papers yesterday and removed from the property, told not to return. Taken to the police station but he went straight back there and kicked off again, shouting around at the neighbours, one of whom called the police again and they came out and arrested him. So he spent the night in a police cell and has his court appearance today, which will set up the AVO (we hope). Where he goes after that, we don't know - and that's only if they don't sentence him to a short jail term, which they should because he's on a good behaviour bond. He just gets too many chances, not just from his family but from the authorities as well. When his troubles first started with the police, he would get better afterwards for a while - but now, he gets away with it so often, he thinks he's untouchable - so I really hope they come down hard on him this time.

At least BIL isn't a full on alcoholic though, which it sounds like your BIL is :( - he's not so insanitary and doesn't smoke. But he does SFA in terms of cleaning or looking after himself as well. One year, when he was living on his own and was out of work because he had no driver's licence, he lived in his house and lived off oranges from the tree in the back garden. He lost over 2stone in weight. All because his mum was away and he just does not know how to look after himself. most people can work out how to use a phone and get a takeaway delivered, but apparently he is too useless even for that.

Thumbwitch I feel for your MIL (and you and DH obviously), she should reminded herself that mental cruelty and verbal abuse is an insidious form of control. Saying that if your BIL hits her it will be the 'final straw', shows how out of control of the situation she is.

I know exactly what you mean when you say that their father's death may have 'exacerbated the situation, but is not the cause. Sounds like the problems started long before then...it's particularly galling when one sibling has to be the 'good' one and is despised for that by the 'bad' one. Your DH is probably blamed and badmouthed by BIL for making him look bad...'He wants to make sure DH isn't getting more than his fair share of anything', jealousy's a prime motivator of selfishness.

BIL is a binge alcoholic, goes on massive benders - used to be clean in between, BIL could go off on one for the most ridiculous reasons, only an excuse for his doing what he wanted anyway. He uses drugs now to appear as if he's doing well and not drinking alcohol...made my blood boil to hear family members 'praising' him...they are aware now but still head in the sand attitude, NEVER any confrontation for his behaviour (except when sibling he's living with bashed every unbashed panel of BIL's car after he crashed it drunk driving...no point though BIL was still drunk and doesn't care because he didn't pay for car, nor the next one that will be bought for him to get to work...AAargh!)

This behaviour from your BIL has huge implications for the wider family...middle of the night phonecalls, worrying about the individual, waiting for what will drama happen next, Police involved, neighbours etc, it's wearing and wearying.

The 'living on oranges'! is a prime example of someone who expects others to do their bidding, and who takes no personal responsibility whatsoever...it is sad to see.

At 37 (BIL is 40!) your BIL is all the man he's going to be...I'm glad your DH and MIL have you to support them (however frustratedly!) It must be traumatic for MIL and DH to see someone they love destroy themselves, but they are being slowly destroyed themselves through this situation.

Good luck and keep being the (lone) voice of reason. PoL x.

Bit scared reading all these examples of lives out of control. I lost two family members last year, both under 30, both having had a long history of substance abuse and emotional problems. Makes me very scared for the baby I'm carrying, because it seems to be the men in my family who go wrong like that (to the point where we have one man left on that side of the family, the other four have all died way before their time) and I know I'm expecting a boy. I just hope that those genes are diluted enough by DH and that forewarned is forearmed and we can spot any problems early enough to get them dealt with before his life goes right off the rails.

Sorry. Just feeling pensive today. Stoopid pregnancy hormones.

POL - thank you. It is both awful and relieving to know that other people understand because they are in the same boat. :( but :). Love and strength to you too in your situation. x

MakesCakes - I worry too. I have no such problems in my family, but on DH's side there are multiple cases of ishoos - his brother as mentioned, his maternal aunt who was a manic depressive, her son (DH's cousin) who is also manic depressive but who made it worse by smoking dope; paternal uncle with depressive issues and a paternal cousin too. Alcohol dependency in some of his dad's Irish family - you get the general picture.
I just hope and pray that if DS shows any tendencies in these directions (apart from the mental health ones, there really isn't anything you can do to save them from that apart from getting good treatment), I can be strong enough to do the Right Thing, not allow the situation to develop in these destructive patterns. :(

Thumbwitch - so nice to talk to someone who understands. I wrote a whole bunch of other stuff, but it all sounded hysterical and trite. It's just good to know I'm not the only one who worries about this kind of thing, basically.

MakesCakesWhenStressed we have a TERRIBLE family joke that our kids have no chance due to the family alcoholic genes on both sides...but like you say, forewarned is forearmed. You will be far more aware of any danger signs and take action if needed. That is WORST case scenario...he'll turn out to be a darling baby, stroppy teen, and a lovely man I'm sure

For my part, I never touched alcohol at all in my teens and twenties (was bored of having been in pubs from an early age with drinking parent, and loved my car so wouldn't risk losing licence) Only started drinking red wine after I had children!

Thumbwitch You're so right, all lives have highs and lows and it is how each individual has been equipped/expected to deal with these that matters...and the reactions of others to them when they are clearly going awry. BIL (mine and yours) have been allowed to get to this stage by being cushioned from all most of life's harsher realities. BIL now counting on an aged relative dying soon so that there's some more funds to continue his 'lifestyle'...breathtakingly selfish.

Addictions ruin lives...the addict's and anyone around them.The addict isn't sitting worying about who he/she's upset...they're too pissed/high to care. I hope you and DH stand together on this...no more lending money for a start (I'm still in shock that DH got his $150 back...BIL owes THOUSANDS in unpaid loans, from family, friends, and the Bank!). He's living >300 miles away at the moment, but he'll be back when his chances run out down there.

Keep on supporting those that deserve it, not the selfish person that demands it. Pol x

Oh, and just want a related teeny tiny MIL gripe...She said to me that she believed 'It's WORSE to have a child that's an alcoholic than to have a PARENT who's an alcoholic'

Oh really?

Well Pol, I can sort of see her point in that she is probably feeling guilty about it - I mean, wondering where she went wrong and what she did that caused him to be that way - which you wouldn't necessarily get as a child of an alcoholic parent, would you? You're in a better position to answer that than I am!
But in terms of the fallout, living with it, dealing with it etc. - no, I think it's got to be harder to have alcoholic parents, especially if they're abusive when drunk but even if they're not - because you have to take over the adult role and responsiblities, as well as being deprived of normal parental care and love etc. :(

I know MIL is mortified to the hilt re. BIL, and has recently said that the most regretted day of her life was the day she gave birth to him (obviously not at the time!). There is a huge part of her that wants to fix him, wants to make him all better and she can't - something that every mother of a sick child would find terrible, that you can't do that basic "keeping him from harm" thing, I think.

Bloody tough all round. :(

Thumbwitch (firstly, apologies for some missing letters on posts...using ancient Laptop after an unfortunate MN+glass of red wine evening accident that rendered my own beautiful sleek, sexy, and superfast model to the dustbin.

I was sympathising with MIL when she said that to me. I'd said I understood how hard it must be for her to deal with BIL having had a parent that was an alcoholic, her response was actually 'oh, it's MUCH worse when it's your child ' (That'll be your 20/30/40 year old child will it? )

A parent is someone who is supposed to care for, and love you (My parent was a great person, and loved me to distraction...I FELT loved! but latterly alcohol became their sole need no matter what) I managed to work it out for myself at @13/14 and only saw them when they were sober.

MIL's guilt may come from when she and FIL were building their business and their children were left to get on with it for a few years (we're NOT talking neglect...they had an amazing life)...maybe similar to your BIL when FIL became ill? But IMO it's HER upbringing that has caused the most problems...if you can ignore a 'difficult' situation then do, keeping up appearances at all costs, the family 'secret' (when EVERYONE is well aware of BIL's behaviour, it's usually too public to hide).

I feel most sorry for my DH, he is a wonderful man...who has to deal with worrying about his brother and his mother, and picking up the pieces in the past. You are in a similar position I think? Again, those not doing the drinking/drugs are pulled into the dramas created. BIL is an intelligent, articulate, and capable person...if he'd been allowed to be.

I'm not asking them to turn their back on BIL, just stop enabling him to do the things that distress them all! That means no more money, no form filling when he is homeless/penniless AGAIN, no bed and full board from assorted friends and relatives, no sympathy when he is coming off another drink marathon...the list is endless!

There is a huge part of her that wants to fix him, wants to make him all better and she can't - something that every mother of a sick child would find terrible, that you can't do that basic "keeping him from harm" thing, I think

SO true...but as I keep pointing out to DH's family, BIL is an ADULT...not a child anymore, and has a choice...a tough choice, but a choice nonetheless.

MIL lives next door to a woman whose daughter (50-something) has abused alcohol for many years...BIL was staying in MIL's house while she was away (sound familiar?!) and of course it was trashed, filthy, disgusting etc. I went to collect something from MIL's house and bumped into neighbour...she suggested that I clean the house before MIL got back (there are NOT enough emoticons or exclamation marks in the world to express my reluctance to do so at the time!) If you didn't laugh you'd cry?

Jeez. Mind you, I expect the neighbour said that because she wished with all her heart that she had someone who could clean her house up from when her own daughter trashed it? Projection. Did you do it? I hope not - because that would be protecting them from the consequences of their own actions as well, wouldn't it.

It's a hard line to tread - my MIL is mostly lovely but has a tendency to displace responsibility for the situation - take last year, for e.g. I stated categorically that I was NOT having Christmas lunch with BIL, I did NOT want to mess up our Christmas Day with traipsing over to MILs (as we had done the previous year) and he was under an AVO so couldn't come to ours. I offered Christmas Eve lunch at hers as a compromise, with her coming to ours on Christmas Day on her own. And was accused of "trying to split her family up". Er no, not me love: that'll be the loser son of yours who wrecks everything with his behaviour.

Yes, it's rubbish for our DHs - because the problem is not of their making but they're still having to deal with it as much as the parents. So sad. :(

Thumbwitch Did I clean the house? Noooooooooo I didn't! I think BIL managed to push a hoover around and hide the porn and empty bottles himself just before MIL got home (See, they CAN do it if they try).

Your 'Christmas' story is ...MIL would have got the whole festive dinner over her head if she's said that to me! 'Displacement of responsibility' by MIL's is very apt in both our sitations...and only 6 weeks before the 'Happy Families Christmas Dinner' rears its uglyhead AGAIN!

It's been very cahartic getting all this off my chest, thank you...DH home in couple of weeks and the 'where's BIL (and MIL) going for Christmas dinner' question will be top of the agenda, if only to prepare myself mentally for the dramas that will no doubt ensue!

Ahh, she didn't say it to my face! just as well. DH probably shouldn't have told me but he has troubles keeping things from me; we both do in fact! she said it to him when I wasn't there.

Good luck with your Christmas - ours should be fairly straightforward now! The current situation is that he is not allowed back to MIL's place at all; he has to stay in a town some 20 km away, the legal system is paying for him to be in a motel there and he has to report into the police station every day until his court hearing in 3 weeks - at which point, the AVO will be set so that he cannot return to his mother's house for a year and the judge will decide whether or not he needs to go to jail. Either way though, he won't be around at Christmas so we're sorted this year at least! DH is sooo relieved. But the trauma runs deep - every time he hears drunk people shouting outside our house, he worries that it is his brother - and so do I. His mother is the same - fewer random drunks up her way but any that she hears set her heart racing. Bloody ridiculous how one person can cause so much trauma to the rest of the family. :(