To think some children are just thick? Why is it so hard to accept?

[PosiesOfPoison]

I love my children dearly and equally, some are more academic than others. One loathes any learning type activity at home, hates work and isn't great at it. He's brilliant in other ways. fabulous on the stage (which makes me think I must be an awful mother for him to crave the adoration of a crowd).

Now I could pop along to an educational psychologist in a bid to find out why he's no good at school or just accept that he's never going to be a grade A student.

So much of me finds it hard to accept that one of my children is not very bright(at school) and I don't really use the word thick in RL it's just a headline grabber!!

So AIBU to spend money on getting him tested or do I accept my lovely boy who would rather stick pins in his eyes will never love school and school type learning?

if it's deleted people will think I was ranting for no reason though

It was a really crappy thing to say posie but sounds like you know that, so fair enough.

Sigh. Ds1 just dx with SEN so pretty emotional myself about it all atm.......

Can I just ask you - do you have a specific worry or just sense something isnt quite right??? eg: do you think he has hearing probs? Trouble with his vision/ocular tracking? Is his handwriting poor? Does he read well?

If its a case of he isnt doing as well academically as his siblings, thats prob ok as all kids are different but if there is a glaring/obvious difference in his abilities to those of his peers, then I can see why you are concerned.

What exactly would he be tested for? Sorry if I've missed it.

If he's struggling at school, maybe a tutor would be a better idea, especially once he gets to secondary school. No not every child is very academic, and not everyone can get A grades all the time, but it would keep more options open to him in the future if he can get some decent grades (C or above) at GCSE for example.

My dd 4.5 just dx with dev delay with AS traits, just got statement, puts paid to my grammar school hopes

Ephiny, you can have your child tested for cognitive impairments. These can be all sorts of things, such as difficulty sequencing, short term memory, processing issues & absolutely stacks of stuff that I can't remember off the top of my head. My DS has quite alot of cognitive impairments that mean that although he has a high IQ, he finds reading & writing far more difficult than a child without such impairments, such as my DD. He is described as being dyslexic - because that is a widely understood (although fairly meaningless term).
Hope that helps.

Also, once you know what the specific impairments are, you can target teaching strategies much better.

Oh I see, thanks Bugsy.

I guess it's a question of how do you tell if it's just normal variation in ability/talent/motivation, or something it would be worth testing for?

I think with one of mine Ephiny in regards to a specific difficulty for example; we could teach them something say in numeracy (for homework) but it would take ages for them to grasp and then they would have forgotten it again the next day. If you feel frustrated with your child when you are having to teach the same thing for the 10th time and you don't know why they are finding it hard and you know its something there siblings/friends can do easily enough.

Someone mentioned working memory and executive function, certainly ticks boxes. I have noticed his missing the point, and not really learning be past mistakes in his behaviour as well as time/dates concept. I think he uses strategies to get around it all and accepts he can't/won't do stuff. All can be easily explained by laziness too.

*their

Ephiny, I think if you've got a seemingly bright kid, who appears to be struggling in one particular area, then it is worth checking. It is a bit of a judgement call, so you have to try and be honest about your child's abilities - to yourself at least. If your child has a supportive teacher, it is well worth having a chat with them - as they tend to be more objective than us mummies.

I don't think this is an either/or situation.

Of course most children nowadays would rather be acting, singing or dancing than getting on with academic work. That is the kind of society we live in now. Many children will have been taking some kind of performing arts course or dance class since they were 3.

But generally people who go on to drama school are competent in academic matters. As you get older, you do have to have a good understanding of drama to be an actor which requires academic skills. There are sometimes actors who struggled with academic work, Orlando Bloom for example, but that just meant they had to work even harder.

But having an interest in drama cannot be a reason for not making a child work. A child in upper primary school should be working at both school and home on academic work. This isn't because they are all going to Cambridge to read medicine, but because the primary years are when everyone is meant to be acquiring the basic skills required to contribute to life in the UK, regardless of their future career.

It is the classic 21st attitude that kids would rather be up on a stage, and as parents we should be getting their self esteem and priorities back in perspective.

The following seems awfully familiar.

Components of Executive Function
Based upon material from Barkley, Brown, and Gioia I have outlined eight general components of executive function that impact school performance:

Working memory and recall (holding facts in mind while manipulating information; accessing facts stored in long-term memory.)
Activation, arousal, and effort (getting started; paying attention; finishing work)
Controlling emotions (ability to tolerate frustration; thinking before acting or speaking)
Internalizing language (using "self-talk" to control one's behavior and direct future actions)
Taking an issue apart, analyzing the pieces, reconstituting and organizing it into new ideas (complex problem solving).
Shifting, inhibiting (changing activities, stopping existing activity, stopping and thinking before acting or speaking)
Organizing/planning ahead (organizing time, projects, materials, and possessions)
Monitoring (self-monitoring and prompting)
Viewing the Impact of Executive Function Deficits in Two Categories. I've found it helpful to view the practical impact of executive function deficits in two general categories:

specific academic challenges like writing essays, remembering what is read (comprehension), memorizing information, and completing complex math and
essential related skills like organization, getting started on and finishing work, remembering tasks and due dates, completing homework and long-term projects in a timely manner, processing information in an efficient and timely manner, having good time awareness and management, using self-talk to direct behavior, using weekly reports, and planning ahead for the future.
Essential related skill deficits may be mistaken for laziness. Since these common academic challenges such as a writing disability are easily recognizable, teachers are more willing to provide necessary accommodations. However, educators may be reluctant to provide needed supports for essential related executive skill deficits such as disorganization, getting started, and failure to submit completed homework in a timely manner. Unfortunately, on the surface, failure to perform these tasks looks like a simple choice was made to be lazy and not complete the work. However, that's not the case; a neurological deficit makes these tasks extremely difficult for students with attention deficits. Consequently, parents and teachers must always keep in mind that, first and foremost, this is a neurological problem, not laziness.

Affects the here and now:
a. limited working memory capacity
b. weak short-term memory (holding information in mind for roughly twenty seconds;capacity-roughly the equivalent of seven numbers)
c. forgetfulness-can't keep several things in mind
As a result, students:
- have difficulty remembering and following instructions.
- have difficulty memorizing math facts, spelling words, and dates.
- have difficulty performing mental computation such as math in one's head.
- forget one part of a problem while working on another segment.
- have difficulty paraphrasing or summarizing.
- have difficulty organizing and writing essays.
Affects their sense of past events:
a. difficulty recalling the past
As a result, students:
- do not learn easily from past behavior (limited hindsight).
- repeat misbehavior.
Affects their sense of time:
a. difficulty holding events in mind
b. difficulty using their sense of time to prepare for upcoming events and the future
As a result, students:
- have difficulty judging the passage of time accurately.
- do not accurately estimate how much time it will take to finish a task; consequently, they may not allow enough time to complete work.
Affects their sense of self-awareness:
a. diminished sense of self-awareness
As a result, students:
- do not easily examine or change their own behavior.
Affects their sense of the future:
a. students live in the present-focus on the here and now
b. less likely to talk about time or plan for the future
As a result, students:
- have difficulty projecting lessons learned in the past, forward into the future (limited foresight).
- have difficulty preparing for the future.

Is this a thread about a thread

I say encourage ALL your children equally and accept that some children are more academic then others, some are better at jigsaws, some are more artistic etc.

It's how life works and at the end of the day childhood intellegence rarely matters in the real world.

Have you read the thread?

It is not a thread about a thread.

I think it is very easy to get caught up in how clever our children might or might not be (I know I do) but ...its just a time in their lives right now.

I am trying not to over simplify this obviously :)

None of my brothers (all in early 20's) enjoyed school , were very average ...now they are all self-employed and have thriving businesses.

I am having massive problems with my eldest at school at the moment so I know the feeling...I am trying to focus on what he has taught himself outside the school building.

For what its worth...I just wanted to say try not to worry

Posie, my DH has is severely dyslexic and judging by your check-list above, has very poor executive function. He also has a stratospheric IQ and a degree in Computational Sciences from St Andrews University, even though he wasn't functionally literate until he was 15 and spent several of his primary school years in a school for the "educationally sub-normal".

He now runs his own company developing computer software. I AM his Executive Function! .

Refreshing thread. In my line of work I see a relatively high number of parents who want to have a label to explain why their child is not in the top sets or achieving the grades their parents want them to achieve etc.

It makes me sad that in doing so they are effectively sending the message that their child must have something wrong with them, rather than focussing on their individual and unique talents.

At 7 my son had problems reading and writing. School told us he was average. lazy and our expectations were too high. We were not pushy but are both in professions. Initially we got some remidial help and then on that teachers advice took him to an Ed psyc at th Dyslexia Institute. I expected him to say that our son was working as hard as he can etc. Basically his reading was that of a 4yr old but exceptional in maths etc. The knock on is that you need to get the right school for child - one that understands the condition as very often they are put in bottom sets and tur off education. A high proportion end up in the penal system. ( OMG - first thing OH said was that he didn't get it from his side of the family )
He was very good at sport and "playing the fool " With extra help from DI he made up and more on his literacy skills. Sadly his state rural primary school ( with classes of less than 20) were not interested in helping him. The local comprehensive were well aware of the failings of this school but discussed with us the fact that they could not give him extra help until they had assessed him - another year wasted. He passed enterence tests in return for carrots of Play stations etc. and much to the disbelief of his primary teachers gained a place at a good public school. Until 6th form life at school was lively - he loved the sport but forget the rest except maths and science - he never had to revise but maintained that you either know it or you don't. Today he has one Degree in Biology and has started Medicine. That Ed Psc assessment ( and the others that follow) ment he got help especially at university ( free laptop, voice activated software etc )
Financially it has screwed us to the ground - l found it very hard to go against the school assessment, but if l hadn't l think his path would have been very different

Thanksx