to find pistonheads view of mumsnet funny!

[Beaverfeaver]

So it seems that the guys over on pistonheads are laughing at mumsnetters:

Feel free to see what they are saying here:

www.pistonheads.co.uk/GASSING/topic.asp?h=0&f=210&t=1069058&mid=0&nmt=Mumsnet

The thing is the word potential just means that the possibility exists. All mothers are potential murderers (as are all fathers just to be clear that I am not being sexist). I also said all people -ie both sexes- were potential thieves.

I am not going to get worked up by this. It is sadly a fact of life that some humans behave horribly to others. Some find themselves in situations in which they do things that they might never have felt possible in other circumstances.

In the question of rape, the thing that has to be asked is why some people like yourself get so upset by the idea that the male sex is capable of rape. It's not as if it is uncommon. Why are people in denial about this? Why do they prefer to think that some women "ask for it" rather than asking "why do some men rape"? It's only the same as asking why do some men (or women) murder other people?

And finally, you think that me insinuating you are a school age person is insulting? There is nothing wrong with being a school age person. It just means that I think you have a lot to learn about the subject you are discussing.

So, define 'potential', define 'political', define 'sexism', those posters who have the (entirely predictable and expected) problems with my use of the terms. I believe you are using these words in ways entirely different from the way I use them.

And don't forget the distinction between analysis and opinion.

Analysis of rape culture is a useful activity, in my opinion.

Oh LOL at that site.

Basically, they're really pissed off that David Cameron, Gordon Brown et al, are more interested in coming on to talk to a bunch of people with vaginas, than the mighty penis-laden pistonheads.

Pure, unbridled, jealousy. I imagine they all have the dress sense and sexual charisma of Jeremy Clarkson. And I expect the majority are rape apologists too, given that they're so interested in coming over here to troll the rape threads - why aren't they trolling the weaning threads?

They kept referring to invasions

ah bless, someone on here ran to the mods when they thought MN was being invaded by people from another forum. How very dare they! You would think MN was public or some such vulgarity!

Bless! Such insecurity

Catherine. You know often in these type of arguments I find people putting words in my mouth. I am not upset by the statement that men are capable of rape. What I don't like is the suggestion that all men are potential rapists. It is a highly charged and sexist comment.

Have I said women ask for ? Have I defended rapists in any shape or form ? Do I appear in denial about rape going on ?

Do you look at infant boys and think 'hmm another potential rapist' ?

I doubt it.

The point is suggesting all men are potential rapists is deeply offensive. It's also stereotyping.

No MrGin it ISN'T.
'Potential' is a just a word, it has a particular meaning. It doesn't mean 'likely', it doesn't mean 'probable'.
Like when I was at school I had great potential as a musician - it never realised.

Yes, it's a horrible thought that someone who seems all normal and nice could turn out to be capable of a horrible crime - sadly people find it out all the time.

if i can't tell by looking if a man is a rapist, he is for all intents and purposes potentally a rapist

he is also potentially lots of other things

but given how many women are raped, and the chances that it could happen to me, this is the potentiality i am concerned about

the fact that we may not be strangers or even in a dark alley makes no difference :(

Odly enough I hadn't heard of this site until I saw the thread over there! That's why I joined.

I had always used bounty from when I had my son. I have done some lurking over here the last 24 hours but that's about it so far.

TBH it all sounds like the playground, how old are they 15?

Why is it offensive to say all men are potential rapists?

Any more than all humans are potential murderers?

Of course we're all potential murderers.

But if someone points out to me, that I'm a potential murderer, I don't get offended by that observation, I know they're correct. I am a potential murderer, just like every other human being on the planet.

What's to be offended about?

Really? Explain it to me, because I'm listening.

I think the only reason I would be genuinely offended, is a) if a loved one of mine had been murdered and the hurt from that was still raw.

b) if I'd been put in a position where I could have murdered someone and got away with it and I hadn't done so

or

c) if I was considering murdering someone, thought I was entitled to do so, had semi-decided to do so, and was feeling slightly guilty about the fact that someone was telling me what I was.

Otherwise, I'd feel totally neutral about the observation that I'm a potential murderer. Because I am. All of us are. Unless we're likely to turn that potential into actuality, none of us can imagine circumstances in which we would stop being a potential one and become an actual one. So most of us aren't offended by being told we're potential murderers/ bank robbers/ thieves. It has no emotional impact on us. Why do some men get so upset by a similar neutral observation, that they are potential rapists?

"Catherine. You know often in these type of arguments I find people putting words in my mouth. I am not upset by the statement that men are capable of rape. What I don't like is the suggestion that all men are potential rapists. It is a highly charged and sexist comment."

Can you explain to me then the difference you see between the statement that men are capable of rape and men are potential rapists?

As far as I can see there is no difference. It merely says that men have open this possibility of behaviour. It is not sexist nor highly charged merely a statement of fact. Again, all people have the capacity to do lots and lots of unpleasant things. Most people don't. The question is why some do. Why do some men rape? Why do some women and some men murder? You can't expect to discuss ways of reducing rape and or murder if you want to close down the argument by saying that it is sexist to argue that men have the capacity to rape or it is antihumanist to state that both sexes murder.

And I have not put words into your mouth. I observed that some people, like yourself were upset by the idea that men were potential rapists. This you have said repeatedly and is evident from the quote from you I have included. My other observations did not mention you explicitly nor did they say that you had said these things. I think you are trying hard to pick a fight with me here.

Wooooooooooooopity.

Try going up to the man you love the most, your father perhaps if he's a good man, or a complete stranger, and say..

'you are a potential rapist'

if I said to a woman at work, or my mother, or you

' you are a potential prostitute'

if I said that to my female boss I'd expect to be disiplined or sacked.

I would fully expect them to be offended.

Catherine. Pay attention. The key word you have missed out and that I have used is all. That is the crux of the issue if you haven't grasped it yet.

To say all men are potential rapists has to be based on the assumption that all men are devoid of a moral compass and unable to see where boudaries are.

Just out of interest, my DH posted the post on PH quoted by squeakyToy above. He's really chuffed!

So do you object to campaigns tht say:

"don't drink and drive" Mr Gin?

Because that's pretty offensive, if you are one of those people who are determined to take offence. I've never drunk alcohol and driven afterwards in my life, I never knowingly would, but I'm not offended by a public campaign that tells me not to, because as a motorist and as an alcohol drinker, I'm a potential drink-driver.

I think if you went up to a random colleague and told them they were a potential prostitute or rapist or anything else, then probably you shouldn't be disciplined, but you should be spoken to kindly, because such behaviour is very unusual and possibly a sign that you are not the full shilling under some stress and possibly need some time off.

If you can't see the difference between a public information campaign and telling randoms in the street or colleagues, that they are potential drunk-drivers/ prostitutes/ rapists (though why you felt the need to include prostitutes I don't know, being a prostitute isn't a criminal offence) then you are slightly confused. This is mumsnet, not netmums (or pistonhead or whatever that unimportant site that the Prime Minister of this country doesn't know exists is called). Your arguments need to be slightly better honed than currently. Keep up, you'll get the hang of it soon. Welcome to MN.

So MrGin, do you think tht saying "all human beings are capable of murder" is saying that all human beings are devoid of a moral compass?

You do seem to see the world in very simplistic, black and white, Jeremy-Clarkson-type terms.

I think the the assertion "all men are capable of rape" made without the qualifier "however, only a very small percentage actually do rape" illustrates everything you need to know about all the constructed argument that follows.

This really is no better than the PH that everyone seemingly despises. They could equally validly argue that all women are capable of being slags or whores.

I think that would give a similar level of insane insensitivity.

Sorry, but when was the public information campaign ' all men are potential rapists' ?

Did I miss it ?

No?

Was it on channel 4 ?

Do you believe that anyone would dream of heading a public information campain with those words or sentiment ?

I used prostitute as it is a fairly loaded term, likely to cause offence even to those not easilly offended !

I agree whatmeworry , that was the original point I was making.

woooooooooooho just for the record I am not some trouble maker on a day trip from Pistonheads or Mr Clarkson's head.

I've been on MN for around a year now.

I was assuming that we were talking about the thread saying that a public info campaign about rape, should be targeted at men as being the potential perpetrators, rather than women, as the potential victims.

We don't get campaigns targeted at sober drivers or pedestrians which say:

"don't be a victim - don't drive at christmas when a drunk driver might crash into you"

"don't be a victim - don't cross the road near pubs, where drunk drivers might be driving recklessly"

All the public info campaigns, are targeted at the people who might actually do the damage, not the people who might be hurt by the damage.

Hardly a revolutionary idea.

Fair enough MrG.

As you know we get a lot of wankers on here trolling from various sites which are dominated by men, and unaccountably, they are always attracted to the discussions involving sexual assault and rape. And their posts are very rarely supportive of victims. So someone who says he's from another site may be treated with unwarranted cynicism and suspicion. Apologies for subjecting you to the fuck off treatment when it's not deserved.

But now can you address my point about drunk driving campaigns.

[hgrin]