about SIL and DS1's Bris (circumcision) ?

[imlikeaironingboard]

I'm Jewish (Liberal) and DH counts himself as secular Jewish (as does all of his family).
His DBro (my BIL) married out - not a 'big' thing with them due to the whole non practicing/secular thing.

I'm due to give birth to DS1 (DC2) in a week.

They do not have children and it is only DH and BIL as siblings. our DC1 is a DD.

Both DH and BIL are circumcised.

She told us tonight that she would not be coming to DS1 Bris. The idea of doing that 'disgusts' her.

AIBU to be really upset and to think that she should have realised that marrying into a jewish family secular or not would mean that these sort of things would happen?

This has really really upset me - I have never got a hint of her feeling like this before.

Don't think anyone quite knows how to respond to that posies, I know I don't. Just wish I hadn't clicked on it.

It probably should be compulsory viewing for anyone considering subjecting their child to it though

My imaginary friend has told me that I need to cut off my baby's earlobes. Not like he would need them or anything. Would you like to come and watch?

Just a point of information, quite appart form the obvious barbarity of chopping bits of babys off to satisfy your belief in the desires of fairies gods, the following peer-reviewed academic journal article indicates that male infant cicumcision accounts for 1.3% of male neonatal deaths from all causes in America. So not only is it painful, traumatic, uncesseary, quite poissibly evil in the truest sense of the word, its also potential life threatening. Maybe you think that's a good thing, after all God can't have changed that much since the binding of Issac.

www.mensstudies.com/content/b64n267w47m333x0/?p=3937350887db49eaa1851acd4a252e77&pi=5

The argument about circumcision/better hygiene and aids have been found to be absolute horse shit. Basically it can be worse for the HIV epidemic in Africa because people believe they are more protected against it, which leads to lesser barrier protection which leads to more HIV. There is a tiny, negligible, improvement in the risk to contracting HIV when circumcised but this is outweighed by the cavalier attitudes to HIV ten fold.

Giveme, that is a video of information. Can't imagine what campaigns against circumcision show that would be more disturbing than that.

I've tried very hard to avoid coming out with the 'my imaginary friend told me to do it so it's ok' line. So glad to find someone who agrees with me Hazle :)

Sam I find it quite ironic that you think we are the gullible ones. I personally think the ones who are gullible are those who believe in a religion that requires them to chop off a part of their penis. But there you go.

SamG. Excluded for having foreskin? Well that pretty much says it all doesn't it?

Are we denying that it's painful now? SamG?

And as for a child having an accident I fail to see how that is relevant to a parent putting a child through pain for some ridiculous book.

Sam - you miss some of the point. From my perspective as a non-religious person there is no need to have any form of multilation to belong to the wider society which is perfectly sufficient for most people's needs. What kind of family or community would reject a baby or child for its lack of multilation?

It seems that people of faith who are normally rational and thoughtful have some big blind spots with things like this which they have never turned given proper consideration to as they are just brought up with it as a given.

part of their son's penis

Circumcision is always risky: Circumcision always carries the risk of serious, even tragic, consequences. Its surgical complication rate is one in 500.48 These complications include uncontrollable bleeding and fatal infections.49 There are many published case reports of gangrene following circumcision.50 Pathogenic bacteria such as staphylococcus, Proteus, Pseudomonas, other coliforms, and even tuberculosis can cause infections leading to death.51, 52 These organisms enter the wound because it provides easy entry, not because the child is predisposed to infection.

It's child abuse. Well done to your SIL for standing up for yor baby as you seem incapable of doing so

Yabu. Good on your Sil. She is obviously a strong, confident, independent woman who knows right from wrong. You should feel lucky to have such a rational, humane person as a close relative. She obviously cares greatly for your dc as she is not happy to stand by and witness his needless mutilation.Your dc will doubtless benefit from having her as an aunt.

I hope you reconsider having any part in this butchery OP.

I would be disgusted too - and I would have no problems telling anyone why! And I speak as the mother of a medically circumcised boy. It is horrible enough even with GA and in a hospital let alone done at home for no good reason - and religion is NOT a good enough reason to be tampering with what you were born with.

YABU.

I wouldn't attend either. It's her personal opinion and she's within her rights not to attend. Just because she married in doesn't mean she has to go. Of course, she was probably expecting it but that doesn't mean she can't say no!

Oh deary me...Some of the comments you people are coming out with are absolutely ridiculous.

Please answer me: If circumcision is BARBARIC...BUTCHERY... CHILD ABUSE...VILE...(some of the words that are used in your comments off the top of my head), then WHY is it not illegal? Why is there no law to stop it in especially this country? Why are there special clinics all around the UK that provide this as a service - all above board and legal?

Wait, oh wait...maybe its because MN is not the voice of the whole world, and that maybe it's NOT barbaric?

To me, drinking alcohol whilst breastfeeding or pregnant is barbarbic and child abuse; doesn't mean it's illegal.

Once again, bandwagon jumping which is so trademark of MN triumphs.

YABU. I'm with your sil. It disgusts me too, as do people who do it. It is sick.

There are many practices which go on which are harmful,but which aren't yet illegal,either here, or in other countries. The law is often slow to catch up. And just because something isn't against the law doesn't mean it's right.

I think the death penalty is barbaric,yet it's still legal in many countries,even including the Western world. Though that's a topic for another day.

Well I think it is pretty abusive.

But then I also think that drinking in pregnancy/breastfeeding is abuse and so didn't do that either.

I understand that people have strong feelings towards their religious traditions. I just don't understand how they can over ride the very strong feelings parents should have to protect their children from harm.

To make something religious illegal would cause so much uproar. It seems like you can get away with whatever you like if it is your religion. The powers that be seem to be afraid to upset religious groups.

ooh good argument, its not illegal, lets do it!

and drinking alcohol while bfing doesn't remove any body parts. Least not when I did, perhaps I should have drunk more?

and have you considered that lots of people thinking the same thing is because its true, rather than badwagon jumping?

How fucking ridiculous. You think we're sitting here thinking" I actuall have no opinion on this matter, but since some other anonymous randoms have said something I'll join in"?

What jenfraggle said. People do a lot of stupid/abuisive things under the guise of religion knowing full well that claiming it as religious practice means everyone else has to bow down and accept it.

As for trotting out the bandwagon line... Yep, I only think slicing off part of my newborn baby's anatomy for no reason is fine, but because a few MNetters don't think it is, hey, I'll join them.

Barbaric: without civilizing influences; uncivilized; primitive
Vile: Morally depraved; ignoble or wicked

Do you want me to get definitions for the rest?