about SIL and DS1's Bris (circumcision) ?

[imlikeaironingboard]

I'm Jewish (Liberal) and DH counts himself as secular Jewish (as does all of his family).
His DBro (my BIL) married out - not a 'big' thing with them due to the whole non practicing/secular thing.

I'm due to give birth to DS1 (DC2) in a week.

They do not have children and it is only DH and BIL as siblings. our DC1 is a DD.

Both DH and BIL are circumcised.

She told us tonight that she would not be coming to DS1 Bris. The idea of doing that 'disgusts' her.

AIBU to be really upset and to think that she should have realised that marrying into a jewish family secular or not would mean that these sort of things would happen?

This has really really upset me - I have never got a hint of her feeling like this before.

Thank you Primafacie that's a little clearer...though it still doesn't say why it was decided it should be foreskin removal?

Yes I knew that Sam I'm sure they wouldn't be bothered what any non Jews did.

MrBloomsNursery I did say it might be wishful thinking on my part.

For you, and anyone else who uses the "it's part of my religion and therefore it's ok" argument, may I refer you to this letter which demonstrates the ridiculousness of that particular line of reasoning beautifully.

Following a religion does not require you to abandon common sense and decency

she has been very tactless using the word "disgust", but you have to respect her feelings on this, sorry

Yes, Worra, it is quite mysterious, I agree.

I'm upset about dtds having tongue tie cut so in truth circumcision disgusts me - sorry if that's noy pc!

givememorecheese that letter is hilarious but very apt i think.

Surely most people would be disgusted by child abuse though? I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone could see it as anything other than child abuse.

perhaps foreskin was decided upon because they believed it to serve no purpose?

totally agree jenfraggle.

infact OP herself agreed that FGM was disgusting, how she can't see that what she is doing is exactly the same is beyond me. does the strength of a person's faith directly affect their ability to think logically?

Sadly it would appear it does, and that really is the scary thing HeresTheScaryThing

Ys, I'd quite like to know what Sam thinks about terrified little girls of 4 and 5 having their clitoris sliced off by a razor blade whilst being held down by their aunties and grandmas, then having their vaginas stiched up with no anaesthesia. They do it in the name of religion Sam. They truly believe it will make the little girl a good muslim. God wants them to do it. Are they right?

perhaps foreskin was decided upon because they believed it to serve no purpose?

Nor does the large lump of skin on the other end of the penis...perhaps they were meant to do away with that and keep the foreskin instead?

good point worral!!

totally off topic but did anyone see QI at the weekend? there was a question on it asking what did the pope's librarian believe the rings of saturn were? the answer was, he beleived it was the foreskin of jesus christ!! prof brian cox was on (yum) and had quite a laugh at this.

FN - re FGM. They don't do it in the name of religion, as it happens. This is a common Islamophobic canard. It's a tribal/cultural thing going back in many cases long before Islam started.

I'm appalled by FGM, which is incidentally forbidden in Judaism, It's not in my view similar to a brit, whatever the anti-circ brigade say.

The more i read, see and discuss any religious practices the more convinced i am that it should have been discarded in the middle ages.

OP - it deos seems a little as you are trying to be offended here.

So chopping bits off girls is forbidden in Judaism, but it's perfectly acceptable, indeed encouraged, to chop bits off boys?

My religion - the church of the bleedin' obvious - states that chopping bits off babies, or anyone who doesn't have the capacity to say "yes ok, go on then", or "no thanks, I'd rather you didn't", is wrong

Sam - call it faith, call it religion, call it tradition, it certainly isn't a requirement in the same way as laws. In the modern world there is no need for it and no need for it to be accompanied by ceremony rather than be performed in an appropriate surgical environment. What do you think the consequence would be of not having a bris?

"So chopping bits off girls is forbidden in Judaism, but it's perfectly acceptable, indeed encouraged, to chop bits off boys?"

exactly this. also

It's not in my view similar to a brit

How is it different? Someone other than the child in question makes a decision on their behalf without consultation to remove and/or mutilate part of that child's body.

Seems similar enough to me, however you dress it up.

But it is in the name of religion to them, even if it isn't written that it should be done. Sometimes culture and religion are so tightly entwined it's impossinle to separate one from the other. If you asked them why they did it God would figure heavily in the answer, I am sure. I remember that from having read a fair bit on it (many years ago, admittedly). Are there any societies that do this that are non-Islamic? I am not aware that there are. Although I agree it is more of a cultural/tribal thing than a straightforward Islamic thing, it is impossible to fully separate the two.

As far as it going back before Islam started, many of the cultures who practice it are semitic cultures, as are Jews, so I imagine the original justification for GM for either sex could quite possibly be traced back to the same thing?