to think my 5yr old shouldn't be pushed around by teaching staff

[youcantparkthatthere]

Hi First post, this has been niggling away at me for a week now. I recently attended a ceremony and my sons school which was been held in the local church. He is in a class of perhaps 16 children. As I watched the children file in I became increasingly annoyed at how one of the teaching staff was manging the children. it was clearly the childrens first time at one of these events and they were understandably unsure of what to do. Some of the children were going into the pew in front of or behind the one the teacher wanted them to go in. However the teacher/TA's response to this was to repeatedly, and IMO, too roughly take hold of the children and physically direct them into their intended seats. We're not talking here about a guiding hand on their shoulders, more like two hands firmly on their shoulders abruptly turning them in the desired direction and pushing them into their intended place.
To me this is quite clearly using physical force to get a child to comply with instruction, as distinct from a reassuring physical guidance. In my line of work, social worker, this would be considered a breach of the children's act and consequently illegal. Similiarly if any of the staff I managed conducted themselves in this way, I would at the very least be forced to issue them with a formal warning.
I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, I believe children need very clear mangement and a sense of no meaning no, (along with yes meaning yes, i.e. keeping promises etc). The main thing that is getting to me is the fact that I'm sure the school would discourage the children behaving like this to one another, so the adults should be modelling this in their own behaviour.
I feel I need to speak to the headteacher but I'm worried this will either be blown out of proportion or minimised. I also dont want my son standing out in a small school as the child whose Dad interferes/overreacts.
Any thoughts. It pisses me of that people think they can negate childrens right to respect and civility just because their small.
In the spirit of fairness I should declare that I find the woman in question very cold and somewhat abrupt with the children, in stark contrast to the rest of the school team, (wholly unsuited to her job imho!)Sorry if too long.

I love this thread...I really love it.

Oh MN don't do this to me I'm in an office FFS and no one would believe I'm laughing at the finance spreadsheet.

snice - ever the professional!!!

ShirleyKnot - Yesssss!!!!!!

wait till you go to the Christmas nativity OP-they virtually need a team of trained sheepdogs and a tazer to get Jesus, Mary et al on to the stage at the required moments

loose comparisons between children act and teachers handling kids in a directive manner is completely different. frankly given your job i would imagine you'd know the difference between illegitimate malicious force and directive handling by teachers. you do seem to be a bit all over the place about this

wait till you go to the Christmas nativity OP-they virtually need a team of trained sheepdogs and a tazer to get Jesus, Mary et al on to the stage at the required moments

My laptop is now dripping with coffee...

lol tazers and sheepdogs to herd the nativity play about.aye thats about right

erm, talking stick also happens... tends to look a bit like a teddy bear though!

Great thread. Although the posters responding seem to have missed the bit about the OP claiming to be a dad and referring to him as a mum.

I knew it was a dad. All the more charming.

(it was the corduroy that gave it away)

were do you practise sw that this shocks you to point of complaining?
auchtershoogle duty team were nowt happens perhaps..
you'll look like elbow patch wearing chin scratchy complaining dad

Auchtershoogle

sm is correct, legislation is different for teachers/school staff.

I am a teacher, and train other teachers/support staff in positive handling (restraint). I have taught in mainstream, SN and EBD settings.

The legislation needs to be clarified. Presently, a teacher/support staff can use physical force if:

-A child is injuring others

-A child is injuring themselves

-A child is damaging property

-A child is behaving in a way that is likely to disrupt good order.

Any physical intervention taken must be reasonable, proportionate and necessary.

This means that if a pupil is charging at another holding a knife, you are justified in rugby tackling them to the ground- if they are verbally abusing you, you are not.

The vague definitions do not help- 'damaging property' could mean smashing a window; it could also mean snapping a pencil in two. Legally, you could restrain a child for this, but ethically? It would be completely inappropriate. The legislation relies on teachers' judgements of what is reasonable, proportionate and necessary, and there is rarely any provision to train them to effectively make that kind of decision.

As a teacher, you have a duty of care to keep children safe, and act in loco parentis.

So, even if, as it appeared to you, the teacher was indeed "using physical force to get a child to comply with instruction", they would still be acting within the law.

OliviaMN is going to tell us all off in a minute (apart from Tenant and tethers who are being Head Girl Sensible).

God I'm boring.

I am pissing myself laughing at the first post where basically, according to the OP, it was like some kind of cabre-tossing contest throwing the children down the aisles.

no wonder folk snigger about sw,fair trade biscuit anyone?or just general angsty gripe about school play

Head Girl... if only....

Some fuckwits are social workers; some social workers are fuckwits. I could do one of my special Venn diagrams.

I do agree with the OP a leetle bit. I hate seeing children pulled about and my pet hate is when adults put their hands on children's heads to 'steer' them by twisting their necks. Roughness makes me cross.

Now, anyone seen my waistcoat? It was woven by fair trade workers out of the hair shed from worthy people. Volunteer worthy people. I'd hate to lose it .

lol,who'd want to impersonate a sw.its not a yeah man respekk job is it!
and in fairness op isnt gaining advantage or status here is he?not getting to rifle through the client files unimpeded or wanton access to the biscuit tin

In my line of work, social worker, this would be considered a breach of the children's act and consequently illegal.

no wonder we are all in such a pickle :(