To expect "nut free" school to actually be

[Booper13]

DS1 (who has a nut allergy - Epi pens etc) has started in reception this year, in a lovely school which we were assured was a nut free zone.
PTA had a cake sale this week and the flyers to ask parents to bake did NOT request/remind people to avoid nuts/nut products.
I raised this with a member of the PTA, requesting that it could perhaps be included in future. She said that she would mention it at the next meeting and that they may consider asking people to clearly label anything containing nuts. I said that would be great, but technically as school is "nut free zone" maybe nuts could just be avoided. She didn't seem to like this and said cake sale is "technically not the school". IMO as it is the parents & kids making/buying the cakes and is on the school premises, it IS the school.
Obviously I am aware that people may say that I just shouldn't allow DS to get anything from the cake sale, but I feel that he shouldn't have to miss out when the school professes to be nut free.
What do you think? Is it really that big a sacrafice for people to make things without nuts? There is another child in the school who also has a nut allergy.
Am IBU to pursue this?

I think PTA person should have been nicer about your request, OP. Would just be a decent human thing.
However, The PTA is Not part of the school.
So school assurance isn't the same as you getting an insurance from everybody else involved with the school (like parents, other pupils or even the PTA).
PTA doesn't have to give the same commitments, resources, responsibilities or assurances.
If they say yes to your request PTA may feel there's an implied liability, if they ever forget subsequently to include the "No nuts" advice on calls for cakes. Run by transient volunteers, they simply won't remember to do it every time and aren't paid to be that vigilant about it.

If you feel it's important, I suggest you join the PTA & offer to run off the flyers, then you can ask each time if anyone minds you asking for "No Nuts" and you will be sure that that request is on there (not that parents will necessarily take any notice.

I read babybarristers thread a while ago and was actually astounded at how many products contain nuts, traces of nuts or nut oil. It was truly eye opening imo.

Considering how many products contain nuts/traces of nuts/nut oil, YABU. It would be virtually impossible to police all products with nuts in, in a school/work/nursery environment, and for any school/work/nursery to think they can deem themselves as nut free simply by not allowing any children or staff to bring nuts or peanut butter into school trivialises the problem imho.
Nuts are present in so many other products, that I was not aware of until I read babybarristers thread.

Thank you babybarrister for opening my eyes a little wrt nut allergies.

I think the school is BU to tell children that it is a nut free environment when it so clearly isn't. The PTA should have labelled the cakes as "May contain nuts" - I can't think why they didn't, especially given the school's stated policy of being nut-free. IIRC the biggest danger of allergen-free zones is that the child thinks it can relax and thus may not be as careful as it otherwise would.

I don't think there's any point at all in even ASKING parents to make nut free cakes for a cake sale. If even one parent forgets, or fails to understand what 'nut-free' really means, then the whole thing becomes very dangerous for a nut-allergic child.

OP, would you really feel safe trusting parents that you don't know to make appropriate cakes for your child? What if someone made a mistake? Far better to teach him that cake sales are just one of those things that he has to avoid (unless you have arranged things so that he KNOWS there is a particular cake which is being kept specifically for him to buy). You can make him safe cakes at home...

My son (allergic to lots of things including dairy, eggs, nuts and pulses) and although we do make sure our home is free of his allergens, at only just 3 years old he fully understands that he has to be incredibly careful as soon as he steps outside the door - this is simply the way his life has to be in order to keep him safe. I get incredibly nervous when other children are eating drippy ice-creams around him (he reacts on skin contact) but would never dream of asking their parents to prevent them from doing this.

Sometmes it's lovely when people make a special effort to include children with allergies. For example, we went to a birthday party yesterday where the mum had checked with me beforehand that everything on the table was safe for my son to eat. For him the best thing was that for once he was able to eat the same birthday cake as his friends (the mum had asked me to make her son's birthday cake, and had paid me for the ingredients and my time!!!) DS was incredibly grateful for this, and kept saying "thank you" until I nearly cried. However, I would never expect any other parent to go to this incredible effort. Generally speaking, it's far safer for my son that he learns that he should only eat/touch the food we have taken with us. It's better that he gets used to being 'different' while he is still young, because he will always be different and he will have to be careful all his life.

YABU.I think it is a very very dangerous thing for you to assume it will be nut-free

YABU. Having been thrown into the world of allergies in the past 18 months (and survived thanks to MN allergy board ) I agree with others that allergens are everywhere. The allergen my DS had anaphylatic shock to is un diagnosed - it's unrealistic for him to live in a bubble so we keep puriton and epi-pens on us and hope it was a one off.

Incidentally DS is also allergic to ketchup, started mild and has progressed. Last time he sat next to a child eating it he got hives. I don't expect the school to ban it though and at PTA fetes he takes a sachet of mayonaise to have on his burger.

He also has severe hayfever during April time but still goes outside to play with his friends. He just has to accept if it gets too bed he needs to go indoors.

Shit -yes, but it's the attitude you have towards your DS' allergies that will make the difference. He needs to know you understand it's shit but that also he has to accept there are limtitions in his life that others don't have.

I've had my eyes opened reading through the linked thread...I didn't know just how many everyday products contain nuts and dairy....

O.P I can't imagine ever letting my child eat from a cake sale with cakes being made by parents...as people have said, how would you know that they are 'nut free'? or, even if they are....that the ingredients used to make that cake were not stored with others that did?

sounds dangerous to me...I would agree that the safest way for you Ds is educating him and sending in your own cakes for him to buy back. That way you can guarantee he will be safe.

I hav a friend allergic to potatoes.... use to thicken soups and lord knows what, she has had two close calls. I think 'nut aware' or similiar, would be a better phrasing.

YABU, and I say this as the parent of a multiple allergic child. DS has just had to learn that he can't always have what others are having and that he always has to ask me first.

Even if the school did introduce a nut ban, would you really trust any of the cakes?

The amount of times that people have said there's no dairy in stuff and on further investigation it has. For example ordering DS a ham sandwich, I asked the woman to check the contents of the ham. She looked at me like I was nuts and said " I can assure you that ham never contains milk ". Lo and behold when she checked there was milk in the ham.

Like MIL trying to give DS Lurpak as it was Lurpak light , and the chef who said there was no dairy in his soup that turned out to have cream in.

Then there's all the variations that people don't know are dairy, like whey, casein and lactose (sometimes).

As people further down have said, people may not necessarily know marzipan is made from nuts.

You really can't expect other people to take responsibility for your DS's allergies.

As others have said I'm also shocked that people think nut allergy is the only one that can kill.

Two of mine can't have anything with gluten in. Yes it is classed as an intolerance but if one has any trace then he becomes incredibly I'll and has been hospitalised. I make them cakes to buy at the cake sales so they can be like their friends BUT a lot of GF recipes contain ground almonds so although fantastic for my DC it's not do good for yours.

I do label mine so people are aware that they contain nuts.

YABU - dd has nut allergy (epi pens etc) and NOWAY would i let her eat ANY of the cakes. i wouldn't dream of expecting the cakes brought in to not have nuts as dd wouldn't be able to eat any anyway. i have to make any cake she eats as i have yet to find a manufacturer that makes a nut free cake - i challenge you to find a cake on the market (other than one new company who makes nut free cakes as their son has nut allergy, sainsbury's, the large ones, sell it) that doesn't mention may contain nuts. dd does miss out but at the end of the day, TOUGH!! something she is going to have to live with and get used too, hard i know but a fact of life for her as she won;'t grow out of it. i agree with no peanut butter in sarni's as it could get on a kids hand and then dd can touch something ie pencil etc but i think they should be able to bring in any cakes they like tbh, dd just keeps away from the whole thing (i usually stick something for her to eat ie some nice biscuits etc in her bag or a fairy cake if i have had time to make one)

btw, dd's school is nut free but it has never come into my head when they have their pta cake sale that the cakes should be nut free, and i can't believe that you trust your child to even bother asking a stranger if the cake has nuts in it - unless you have nut allergy or mother a child with it (or are a dr, nurse etc) you have no idea what it is like/what it really means. nut allergy is so common now that people, like say ivf, just think oh yeah, nut allergy but it is a fucking real scary thing to witness when you dd has an attack/episode. at her brownies last week brown owl was handing out some birthday cake from a plate as she left and three times yelled to my dd that it was ok for her to have some cake as their were no nuts in it. er, right. did she bake it? did she check the individual ingredients? was her butter safe to use etc etc. people don't know she keep your child safe by keeping them away, simple but i don't expect other kids to have to go without, not for a minute, i just deal with my own kid and make sure they don't go without by making her a cake myself :)

Why on earth woud you want to expose your ds to an allergic attack by allowing him to buy from a PTA cake sale? For so many reasons YABU. I believe that you must teach your son that he can't accept any food without being 100% sure of the ingredients. It is crap for him not being able to have a sweet in class or eat at a cke sale but when you look at the alternative, you don't have any option.

You can ask patents to be careful of not using nuts in the cakes but there will always be someone who thinks that not sticking a peanut on top of the icing is sufficient. Make cakes yourself, man a stall for five mins and let him buy your cakes, sorted.

Hello.

just found this and I think if a school says its nut free then that's what they should.

DD started at the local school nursery in sept and as she has multiple allergies, i spent the first few days there with he just to make sure they understood.

I noticed cereal boxes in the junk modelling area that had clearly contained nuts. eg crunchy nut cornflakes, alpen and other museli's. they also had a large container full of mini choc wrappers including snickers. They removed the wrappers but said the couldnt not have the cereal boxes. My Dd is very sensitive to traces and crumbs and i find it odd that they would allow those things.

I was told that even though they are nut free it doesnt stop parents sending kids in with fods that definitely contain nuts.

From my understanding, to say that a school is nut free means nothing. it is merely there to remind parents to not send in peanut foods in the packed lunches. i was reassured by the statement when we first considered the school,but don't believe it means anything.

Another local school which is private, also say they are nut free nut the kids are allowed to bring cereal bars into school.

a school stating they are nut free fee doesn't mean they are. Its just a trendy thing that they follow.

My daughter is 4 and has never had anything that i havent cooked. she has things like plain salted crisps, raisin boxes, kinnerton chocs and fruit pouches that i know are ok but with
but they're the only ready made things really. she has allergies to so many everyday foods that the only way i can keep her safe is to just accept that she cant eat what everyone else can. i feel really mean but i dont want her to be confused and would rather make it a clear thing for her.

Babybarrister, I dont think your being unreasonable to expect someone who calls themselves nut free, to be just that! in reality it means not a lot. I imagine if you managed to convince the school to comply, all they could do was label everything with may contain nuts.

Sorry for the long reply. a very interesting debate. thankyou.

mumat39 whilst I appreciate it must be terribly hard to deal with you DD who has her allergies I do not think it its fair that others should miss out on their craft time as they can't use cereal boxes as they might have traces of nuts in them.

If thats the case then most things my son takes to school for his lunch should be banned. I of course don't sent him in with nut products intentionally but a lot of the food which goes in says "may contain nuts".

The problem can be that if you really want them to be nut free then you're restricting to shop bought only. I wouldn't send nutty cakes into school, but I might well use an ingredient that is kept in the cupboard with the nuts. Some people that amount of exposure to nuts is enough (I have a friend like that).

If I had a child with severe nut allergy I would not let them buy the cakes for that reason.

I think labelling them is not unreasonable, the risk is someone won't do it. But if you tell everyone to make them nut free there's always a risk someone hasn't read it and puts nuts in anyway.

Hello Dartford mummy. i think i am in agreement with you. I was just making the point that they felt removing choc wrappers was necessary that it wasn't necessary to remove the cereal boxes when both contained nuts in them. The term 'nut free' is too open anx means different things to different people.

I provide junk modelling boxes for Dd to use and they kerp her stuff in a separate bag. one school i went to recently had banned cereal boxes which had contained nuts after a child with a nut allergy had had a bad reaction.

DeWe, I agree and wouldnt let my dd buy things from a cake stall, whether there were any labelling or not. I accept that some things just pose too much of a risk. I need her to understand too so am trying to be very clear and find it easier to say no rather than maybe. if that makes sense