AIBU ... to want to keep SIL at arm's length?

[Bobbymac]

I'm 51 and live in Durham with DH of 20 years and DD (11). SIL (45) and MIL live in London.

For 20 years, SIL has been dismissive and rather offhand with me (which I've ignored), and recently told me she has loathed me since the first day she met me.

From the outset, DH made it clear his sis has emotional problems (big history) and is very self-absorbed. Families are what they are, so I made a big effort with her. Then both SIL and MIL reacted badly to my longed-for PG, with MIL saying that through my relationship with DH, I'd split up her family (she reeled off a list of complaints from SIL about my character). Since then, to appease MIL, I have considered everything with "allowances for SIL" in mind - I've cut her a lot of slack, been supportive in her crises and bent over backwards to make her feel included (even took her on hols with us). I've been sympathetic through the moods, mystery illnesses and accidents (usually occurring when she can't deal with things or can't get what she wants). I have turned a blind eye to her and MIL's manipulations and at times have put SIL's needs above DD's! MIL will do anything to keep her happy and has always expected me to do likewise. I wish I'd taken a firmer line because now, after years of it, I feel like a doormat to a petulant child:

Since we moved from London, SIL refuses all invitations to visit us (we have to go to her), and then, because we can't visit often, she and MIL imply that we marginalise her. She has been increasingly rude to me, seems to delight in undermining my authority in front of DD (and steering DD to do likewise) and acts with total disrespect to DH and myself. It's like a game she plays. She was recently very OTT affectionate with DD, making out she has been cruelly separated from her "special girl" - and yet in the 7 years we lived in London, didn't once offer to read her a story or take DD out (it used to be as if DD was her rival for MIL's attentions).

During a recent abusive tirade, she railed at me aggressively, mocking my role as DD's mother, then suddenly changed tack, ran for DD and sobbed hysterically on her shoulder (as if I'd upset her!) I had to just sit there and take her personal insults, for fear of upsetting MIL and the whole apple cart. (She was a b*h and knows she can get away with it in front of her family). I managed to placate her but now the dust has settled, I've decided I don't want to see her again for a long time - I feel too demoralised.

The thing is, she is hinting that she intends to be DD's mentor and confidante . She seems to think this is her right, irrespective of what us parents think. (She has told DD that when she gets sick of her mother, SIL will be there for her). She also insisted on taking DD's mobile number and has been sending her intensely "chummy" texts.

I feel sorry that she has no kids, but I just don't trust her to act maturely with DD.

Obviously, there's alot to this, but for starters, AIBU to want to keep SIL at arm's length from DD and keep our visits to London to a minimum? (DH is fine with this). Do I lay down boundaries/ground rules? And what do I tell DD (who is totally beguiled with SIL)?

Probably too late to be of help, but I wonder if it would come better from your DH, as SIL and MIL seem to both be so against you, and it will send the clear message that he is behind this move?

If he doesn't want to get into a debate, then email or letter will avoid that, but it is potentially easier to unintentionally offend in writing.

Agree with IsitMeOr - let your DH do it, after all he is her brother.

Funny enough, I had an aunt who pulled these type of stunts with me, eventually claiming, when I was 11, that I would be better off living with her than my mum. Luckily, as she lives abroad, it was easy to cut her out of our lives.

Deep down she probably is a nice person, we all are, unless we are diagnosed sociopaths, it is however so very deep down it makes little to no difference. It is the stuff between here and "deep down" that colours our interactions with people. And she is a bitch.

On a theme, ultimately, it is the things that you do, not who you are, that determines the type of person you are.

What you do is who you are.

I also think it would be better coming from your DH. If it comes from you, she can twist it to being that you are keeping her from her beloved brother and she will make the effort to thwart you. If it comes from him, hmm, she can still twist it that it's because of your influence, but any attempts to thwart you will be directed at him and convincing him not to do this, leaving you free from her manipulations.

Frankly, it's his turn to deal with his sister, you've done more than your share.

You have the patience of a saint. She sounds quite alarming! Not sure i would want to spend ANY time with someone who freely admitted she hated me on sight, cried when i was pregnant, wouldn't see the baby until you brought her round and constantly undermines and is nasty to you. I think you've done your bit with her.

Keep the doors open for your dd to have occasional visits with your h. Let him explain to his mother why you've had enough.

I would not let her have your dd's number though. Get your h to say she can contact her through him.

woh, what a poisonous pair. MIL is not at all innocent in this.

I agree that DH needs to deal with it. NOT by going into great detail but by setting a rigid, firm, immoveable (get the picture!) boundary. If he feels he can't do that (and it's likely he will quake at the thought, being as he has been brought up in this vat of poison) then iiwy I would quietly slink away. That is, all of you, as a family, quietly stop enabling this appalling dynamic. No song and dance - a moonlight flit. I wouldn't engage in any discussion at all on any level. HOpefully, DH will be able to come up with the goods (re ONE SENTENCE, or possibly, two) at some stage but for the timebeing just drop out of the picture.

New SIM for dd.

Sound like SIL was attempting to replace DH with DD. I do agree that DH has to come to your defence, in saying that SIL should not undermine you and respect you as you are member of her family. I'm not sure of the appropriate way to do this which is probably why you've taken so long to "bring this matter out in the open". It sounds like you've tried to be quite respectful of someone with MH isssues. I'm also not sure of the finality of it all. But agree with arms length approach.

How has DD reacted to the information? I'm sure she's quite smart probably suspects there is something odd about SIL.

Smearedinfood - DD was a bit confused about the scene in London (but after SIL's sobbing, apparently thought I had said something to upset her aunt). At the time, she wanted to go and live near her (had been given expensive pressies, lots of attention and stayed up late - against parent's wishes, which were ignored). She knew I was a bit upset about the whole thing afterwards, but thought there had just been a disagreement.

Last night, we told DD that her aunt has issues and also very negative feelings towards me, and that we're going to be keeping SIL at a distance - she is fine with all that. She was apparently a bit unsure about all the stuff coming from SIL ("you're my number one special girl and i love you and I always will. No matter how far apart we are, we will always be close in our hearts because we're the same family" etc). I think she didn't know what to make of all the attention but she has since told me that she felt her aunt wanted her as her own child.

From when she was little, I think she always known there was something amiss - on hols, SIL had a fall, injuring her ankle (after we had gone out without her one morning when she and MIL were having a lie-in. She hadn't been happy about that). Injury was followed by major drama (got us to buy walking stick, wine etc, brother had to take her to doc). DD was 5 but still remembers all that.

We are under pressure to visit MIL and SIL again - we've been told by SIL that MIL is on borrowed time. DH and I have agreed that DD and I won't go, but that if his mum really goes downhill, then he'll go on his own.

Don't worry too much about the "borrowed time" comment, I've heard that lot from my own mother, (she still doesn't understand why someone would want to move to the UK). Usually means that she's wanting attention (although still refusing a paid trip to the UK by us - we try).

It seems like your a rather sensible sort trying to make sense of the unsensible. Good Luck with it all.

I feel for you. I too have a SIL who is the same age as me, but acts like a spoilt child always wanting her own way and all the attention, which her parents are more than happy to give to her despite any inconvenience to anyone else. I don't see why when you marry a man, you have to marry his sister too. I understand that PIL's are part of the package and that's fine, I think you should help and be respectful to aging parents, but I do not see why you have to bend over backwards for brat siblings? Frankly I would prefer to have my SIL as an acquaintance, rather than a friend and have a polite, yet distant relationship with her. Usually I am a very assertive person, however when it comes to the in-laws I am a total doormat.
I'm sorry, it is not always easy to deal with them because as the DIL, you are damned if you do, damned if you don't and they will always drop the blame at your feet, unfortunately.

Update OP? X

My DH has now written a firm but very reasonable letter to SIL (he asked me to read it first). He has told her how he feels about the things she has said and that it seems inappropriate for her to continue texting DD. He has also made it clear that she can contact DD through us. He told her that he wants to keep his Mum out of this, and also took some of the blame for the whole thing, himself . A few days later (last week), he got a "Fine", text in response, and reckons that his relationship with his sis is probably over.

Knowing his family, he will be expected to apologise. We're bracing ourselves.

At least you have done what you needed to do so hopefully you can all feel
Better for that! Keep updating us and good luck! X

Well done, BobbyMac, you and your DH have done the right thing. I just hope you can keep your narcissistic SIL out of your life for ever.

Cheers, guys. I feel for my DH but I really think that seeing some of the posts has helped my DH get some perspective on this.

I was aware that SIL tried this "mentoring" thing with an old school friend's daughter and that it caused friction between the Mum/daughter. SIL is now not so matey with the friend, but has v.close relationship with the daughter.

So, all in all, as much as DH is hurting a bit now, I'm relieved we've done it. We'll keep you posted of any developments.

My goodness, reading this thread is a massive deja vu experience. I am in your position, BobbyMac, but the difference is that my SIL's behaviour is a lot milder. Apart from that all your analysis and observation of family dynamics, etc, is absolutely spot-on.

Reading your posts I feel much relieved about the way I feel towards SIL. I wish you the very, very best.

Just an update. A few weeks ago, my SIL sent a text in reply to DH's letter, and it just read "Fine" (which is pretty much what my DH expected).

Today we received a parcel from SIL for DD with "FOR MY SPECIAL GIRL" on it. Obviously, no card or anything for us, so I decided to check the contents - a very expensive bracelet, engraved with a personal message all about love, and a framed photo of SIL and DH together. It just seems really OTT...

I feel terrible - partly because it makes me feel guilty and hard-hearted but more so because it feels like emotional manipulation.

Any thoughts or advice

was the parcel addressed to you or directly to your daughter?
I'd say given the letter that the contents are innapropriate, they smack of emotional maniuplation.

Personally I would send them back to her. (but having dealt with emotionally manipulative relatives I have zero tolerance for this kind of thing)

I agree with rollo, a photo of SIL & DH?? Wildly inappropriate and smacks of manipulation. Stick to your guns!

Actually, I think I'd keep it since the "to" was so vague, and text her "thankyou very much for my bracelet, I accept your apology :o "

The parcel also contained gifts from MIL, but also gifts clearly from SIL to DD ("I LOVE YOU" on the outside so it clearly wasn't intended for me)

DH and I thought it best to open them, given SIL's history. I just cannot give these things to DD - it feels all wrong.

DH is thinking of sending them back with a letter

Sorry - the photo was of SIL and DD hugging! Typo.

I think you need to keep both MIL and SIL at arm's length. Be the silent in-law if you want, keep up with Christmas cards and normal visits (if there are such things) and expect to be spoken down to. If you have a good relationship with your DD she will soon see the toxic in-laws for what they are. Your DH also has a choice, because your choice will undoubtedly make him a target for more hassle, he can choose to try and appease them, or he can draw a line in the sand and tell them not to cross it.

I know MH issues should be treated with some empathy, and yes, I think its right to give those who suffer them a longer leash and more tolerance, however I don't think that you have to roll over every time. It doesn't help in any way.

YANBU.

My SIL is at more than arm's length, I see her a little as possible, I expect whining and bitching, and I get it but I don't care, I don't bite, and don't roll over.

I would send them back, so inappropriate.