AIBU ... to want to keep SIL at arm's length?

[Bobbymac]

I'm 51 and live in Durham with DH of 20 years and DD (11). SIL (45) and MIL live in London.

For 20 years, SIL has been dismissive and rather offhand with me (which I've ignored), and recently told me she has loathed me since the first day she met me.

From the outset, DH made it clear his sis has emotional problems (big history) and is very self-absorbed. Families are what they are, so I made a big effort with her. Then both SIL and MIL reacted badly to my longed-for PG, with MIL saying that through my relationship with DH, I'd split up her family (she reeled off a list of complaints from SIL about my character). Since then, to appease MIL, I have considered everything with "allowances for SIL" in mind - I've cut her a lot of slack, been supportive in her crises and bent over backwards to make her feel included (even took her on hols with us). I've been sympathetic through the moods, mystery illnesses and accidents (usually occurring when she can't deal with things or can't get what she wants). I have turned a blind eye to her and MIL's manipulations and at times have put SIL's needs above DD's! MIL will do anything to keep her happy and has always expected me to do likewise. I wish I'd taken a firmer line because now, after years of it, I feel like a doormat to a petulant child:

Since we moved from London, SIL refuses all invitations to visit us (we have to go to her), and then, because we can't visit often, she and MIL imply that we marginalise her. She has been increasingly rude to me, seems to delight in undermining my authority in front of DD (and steering DD to do likewise) and acts with total disrespect to DH and myself. It's like a game she plays. She was recently very OTT affectionate with DD, making out she has been cruelly separated from her "special girl" - and yet in the 7 years we lived in London, didn't once offer to read her a story or take DD out (it used to be as if DD was her rival for MIL's attentions).

During a recent abusive tirade, she railed at me aggressively, mocking my role as DD's mother, then suddenly changed tack, ran for DD and sobbed hysterically on her shoulder (as if I'd upset her!) I had to just sit there and take her personal insults, for fear of upsetting MIL and the whole apple cart. (She was a b*h and knows she can get away with it in front of her family). I managed to placate her but now the dust has settled, I've decided I don't want to see her again for a long time - I feel too demoralised.

The thing is, she is hinting that she intends to be DD's mentor and confidante . She seems to think this is her right, irrespective of what us parents think. (She has told DD that when she gets sick of her mother, SIL will be there for her). She also insisted on taking DD's mobile number and has been sending her intensely "chummy" texts.

I feel sorry that she has no kids, but I just don't trust her to act maturely with DD.

Obviously, there's alot to this, but for starters, AIBU to want to keep SIL at arm's length from DD and keep our visits to London to a minimum? (DH is fine with this). Do I lay down boundaries/ground rules? And what do I tell DD (who is totally beguiled with SIL)?

Agree with the other posters saying change your DD's mobile number.

You cannot inflict this woman on your DD any longer. You don't like her, your DH doesn't sound particularly bothered about her, cut her out. Someone who undermines you infront of your own children, who is constantly spiteful and melodramatic and who makes you feel this way has no place in your life.

I would just stop all visits to her. Life is too short to keep giving toxic people the opportunity to behave badly.

Tell the woman in no uncertain terms to stop contacting your daughter, and change your daughters sim card.

OP, don't just do anything for a quiet life. Sever ties with this toxic woman. She has proven to be self centred beyond belief. Do not expose your daughter to her whims. she doesn't give a stuff about her. Your DD is only a pawn as far as your SIL is concerned. Change your DDs number now ensure that SIL doesn't have it. Shes only a kid and doesn't deserve to be manipulated by your sil. Protect her from this manipulation.

Thanks for all the replies - it's really helping to throw some objective light onto the situation. I've been immersed in all this for so long, it's been hard to see things clearly. My SIL had a turbulent childhood and her mother is now ailing (heart problems), so I suppose that's why I've gone gently. Mind you, she didn't seem to care at all about her Mum overhearing her ranting at full tilt! All the intense affection has been really unsettling (literally wouldn't let DD go when hugging her): drew out goodbye to 3 hugs and tearful reluctance to leave.

SIL has always made out she's totally together (very into personal growth) but has very obviously had problems over the years. I think MIL always looked for someone to blame. I should have taken a stand after DD was born but in many ways, SIL is vulnerable under assertive facade. When she has been manipulative or unreasonable and I've tried to keep her at a distance, she has suggested to anyone who'll listen, that I have a problem. Then she paints herself as so unfairly treated, and MIL has been so hurt, that I've often ended up wondering if I AM being unfair. DH is compassionate because of his sister's unhappy childhood (he's a lovely bloke) but there's this weird status quo in his family that everyone has to make allowances for his sis, no matter what she does/says.

I didn't want to hurt DH by cutting her out, but deep down, I've never been happy about the way she treats DD - as if she's there to fill a gap in her life (and I'm just an inconvenience). I feel so much better about it all now though - I'm planning to mail SIL and let her know that her feelings are her feelings (and not my problem) and that, if she wants to contact DD, she'll have to do it through us (or not at all). My child, my terms. Then we can screen everything.

I'm also going to have a talk with DD and give her very brief history - I think OP's are right - she needs to know, as she's caught in the middle. I don't believe in sabotaging relationships but I think I need to intervene.

Your SIL is a manipulative cow. She is a grown up and whatever problems she has had in the past are her own to sort out, not your 7yo DD's. I'm glad you're making a stand on this.

You would not be sabotaging a healthy good relationship, so please dont worry about that!

Poor you bobbymac
Why didn't your dh stand up to his mum and sister twenty years ago?

YANBU. She sounds toxic and I wouldn't want her in my life / my kids. Also, it would be quite straightforward to limit contact. Can you change your DD's mobile so SIL doesn't have her no. anymore?

There is a forum for daughters of narcissitic mothers which I found quite helpful... you could do a search for it as it had some useful general info on toxic personality types.

Oh, don't worry, I've dealt with it in my own way over the years - I just never let my feelings show to MIL and SIL. I've kept them both at arm's length for periods of time. I didn't want DH to feel torn by asking him to intervene, though I think he has been conflicted. Less so now though, cos SIL said alot of stuff in front of him.

SIL was so unhappy about my PG that MIL wouldn't visit us in case it upset her. DH did actually intervene then because MIL was so negative about PG whenever she called me - he told her not to call again til BB was born. When DD was born I wanted to leave it to SIL to make amends, and then ended up writing to her when DD was about a year old. We took DD to see her when really, we shouldn't have - she should have come to us. I realise that now. (SIL claims now that she was over the moon about my PG! BS!)

This recent scenario was tricky because DD was a bit infatuated with SIL. When MIL child-sat for us a couple of years ago, SIL took the day off work to go to MIL's and spend the day with DD (we had no idea she was going to do that). I think that's how the "special friend" thing started.

You have to look at it this way..it is your job to protect your dd, not pander to sil. I know how difficult it is to know that you should do something, but then in reality actually do it. I'm sure if you explain to dd that sil has issues and to take what she says with a pinch of salt, then dd will understand :)
Good luck with it all.

To Linerunner - yes, this is why we moved away! I was concerned about how our lives would be further down the line if we stayed near them. MIL and SIL are pretty much joined at the hip, so it's very hard to challenge one of them without the other one finding out.

And yes, I didn't want to upset MIL, largely because she has serious heart problems. She amazed me by expecting us to stay to lunch (after having overheard all the carry-on). I made excuses and couldn't get out of there fast enough.

Limit her access to your DD, it's only going to get worst.

Your first loyality is to your DD, your SIL is so far down the list as to barely register, if she wants you to be nice to her, she needs to prove she is worth you having in your life. Just because everyone else thinks she should be high up the priority list, doesn't mean you ahve to force her high up your priority list.

Life is far too short to spend time worrying about grown up family members. it sounds harsh to say that but it's tken me years of family related heartache to get there.

You can cut her out of your life. Your DH can stll keep contact but you need to put yourself and your DD first.

I wonder where SIL's angst towards you comes from, are you getting the blame for taking her brother away from her? What was her problem with you getting pregnant, jealously ??

I feel sick reading this. I actually can't really understand why you need anyone's opinion on this.

Your MIL and SIL seem to have completely lost touch with what a healthy relationship is and I fear they are dragging you down into their confusion.

I suspect they will NEVER understand or accept your 'healthy' point of view. But your DD needs you to be honest with her, talk to your DD about their behaviour in a light hearted way. Be a team with your family. Restrict meetings to public places - if you MIL and SIL give you a guilt trip - ignore it. I suspect they will pile on guilt trips regardless of what you do and that you may never come to any 'peace' in this relationship.

No you aren't. Keeping her well away from your DD is the best thing yo could do by the sounds of it.

Jesus! You are doing the right thing to tell your DD some of the history. Your SIL sounds awful, really, really awful! I agree that it's time (long over due) to stick up for yourselves.

My brother is a difficult one and my mum always expected everyone to make allowances all the time. He never had any consequences for the things he did and we were supposed to tip toe around him. Bloody awful. I was always in a heightened state of anxiety . . . for years! We are estranged now and as awful as it sounds (and it does make me a bit sad) my life is much, much calmer and more peaceful.

I think you are right to talk to your DD. 11 is old enough to understand quite a lot about family relationships.

I remember at 12 feeling very frustrated about having things kept from me, or watered down for me, about my mother's terminal illness and some things to do with my parents' relationship. I had a pretty good idea what was going on and would have been more than capable of digesting the full, adult explanation.

Why not take an approach along the lines of "I have been keeping the real situation from you because I didn't want to upset you but I think you are ready to be treated as a grown-up and given a full explanation".

It would probably be better if both you and your DH were involved in the conversation so it doesn't look like a one-on-one personal issue between you and your SIL.

All that they have said ^^ and also I'd be concerned that if your dd doesn't act as your sil likes then she may turn her mad rantings on her. You really need to protect her from this sad, immature woman who is very likely as she is because no one has stood up to her.

I was in an almost identical situation when I was 12. I had melodramatic, overly generous childless aunt, lots of gifts, etc. My parents cut all contact with her for years. At first I was a bit put off by this, but mum explained simply, but honestly, about what a rabid bitch she had been to my father (her brother), and I was cool with it. My glamorous aunt was no longer in my life, but I loved my dad to bits and didn't want him to suffer at her hands.

Sounds deeply unhealthy. Can you get your DD a new mobile and "forget" to give SIL the new number?

In a couple of years your DD won't want to be hanging around with weird Aunty SIL (or indeed any of her family - she'll want to hang out with her mates) but until then you need to keep contact to a minimum.

They don't come to visit you - good. No need to worry about them coming to stay. Don't go down to stay with them.

change DDs number, and keep all contact to a minimum. If SIl and MIl kick off tell them quite calmly that you have put up with their behaviour for years, and that whilst you understand that SIL is not well, you are not having her hurt DD (because she will hurt DD)

The sad thing about this is that your mil be be agrieved and you will get all the guilt sent your way.
You just got to be sure to cut them both out, because any chink wil let sil back in again.
Mil is a grown up and she has sided with your sil for 12 years ,its not going to get any better.
Its very sad but it shows how the actions of one family member can be so corrosive. Good luck to you

Why do you give a shit about people who don't give a shit about you?