to insist he returns to work

[SlightlyBemused]

AIBU to consider phoning a work colleague who has been on compassionate leave for more than 4 weeks and insist he returns to work?
The reason for the leave was the suicide of his only DS. He is understandably distraught and has my sympathy. I wish to give him all the time he needs, however pressure from above and critical work elements requiring his attention make me question; how long is long enough?

My FIL committed suicide. My husband went back to work two weeks later, and had a nervous breakdown himself a few months later.

Suicide of a close relative is (I think) harder to deal with than most other deaths, because there are so many unanswered questions and "what could I have done" that play on your mind, and always will, but 28 days in, is still very raw.

Everyone deals with grief differently, but a month is still very early days.

I do think it is reasonable for the OP to speak to the man and gently ask if he feels ready to come back to work, as it may help for him to be doing something, BUT equally, it would be understandable that he doesnt feel ready yet.

Just a thought that when you do feel the time is right - by talking with him about it as you have a good, friendly relationship - perhaps you could ask him for some support with a few specific projects that need his expertise, and help him feel valued and needed, and that he could perhaps work on from home (though am a bit confused with which country everyone is in with this one ! )

I think all you can do is make him aware that the company management are starting to be difficult and let him make his choice.

I don't think Bemused is getting unfair stick - the OP wasn't terribly sympathetic.

And of course the ME thing is relevant - I wouldn't/couldn't work somewhere which had such poor employment law. And sorry, I don't buy the 'we're doing people a favour' argument - the only reason companies go there is to make money, not out of a sense of moral duty to the poor citizens.

Anyway, I digress. Bemused - can you find out a 'you're back by X date or you're out' from your bosses? Then you can call your colleague and tell him the situation and he can decide what he wants to do and you won't be springing it on him at the last minute.

ravenousbug - I also work in professional services and although compassionate leave is short in the handbook, it is not applied like that IME. I took a month off after my miscarriage (was signed off by my GP) and my colleague who was a very senior partner at the time was allowed a huge amount of time off when his wife was dying. That's the difference in the UK - there is a certain amount of compassion in the way the rules are applied on the whole.

MrsStephenFry how on earth do you know that the OP is a different colour? The practices she is discussing are based on nationality, not colour within that nationality.

What exactly do you suggests she does? If she does nothing, the man will lose his job and his visa (and I presume there's a ban process in that situation). And 'I wouldn't have taken the job in the first place' isn't an answer...

the only reason companies go there is to make money, not out of a sense of moral duty to the poor citizens.

I think the OP works for a locally owned company, not an overseas branch/subsid of a foreign owned company. Whilst the country has few employment laws, expats transferring to ME subsids of UK companies generally get much better contracts.

The problem is that there's a low minimum requirement- many companies do go better than what's legally required.

When my son was stillborn (actually born just before the 24 week point that officially separates stillbirth from late miscarriage) I was only given four weeks off work for bereavement leave.

I was in no real state to go back and ended up crying and feeling an absolute mess. I was more of a liability than a help and I think it would have been better for everyone if I had been allowed a lot more time off. Lots of customers were unaware of our loss and kept asking about my pregnancy and my baby. It was terrible.

When my daughter died later on the same year I was given nine months off work and felt much more fit and able to return at that point than I would did after just four weeks.

Please do not phone him. My DH had no choice but to go back to work quite soon after both our losses as he is in the military. Our daughter died at Christmas and my DH was supposed to be working through Christmas leave. Instead they let him take his two weeks leave and an extra week of compassionate leave to cover the funeral, which was delayed because of Christmas. On the day of her funeral, two minutes after her service had started, a colleague of his rang my DH to complain about the amount of holiday he had taken and to tell him that he had been put down for early duties that weekend to make it fair to the other people in his unit. Obviously we had not taken our phones to our daughters funeral but that was a very upsetting message to come home to (to say the least). DH has never forgiven that colleague and neither have I. When DH felt able to comment he did tell that colleague exactly what we thought of him and pointed out that he had not really been on "holiday" and would have preferred to work through Christmas than have his child die.

The following year DH actually volunteered to work Christmas to cover for a colleague whose wife had lost a baby in the same way we lost our son. His boss thanked DH and said "You know what X is like - anything to get out of work."

I can understand that as a small business it is hard to deal with a member of staff being absent for a long period of time but in this case you might all be better to leave him alone and try to cope. Bringing him back early will do the business no favours if he cannot cope when he comes back. And it could hurt him more than you might imagine to receive a call from colleagues complaining about needing him back so soon.

You're pretty naive if you don't think colour comes into the nationality side. Man in question is Indian. I'd bet money OP is not British Indian.

Its a really difficult one for the OP and I don't envy you at all. Are people suggesting that you shouldn't work in the middle east, just because they don't have the same level of labour laws . Do these people not have cars which need petrol to power them which comes from crude oil which happens to be depositted in large quantaties all across that region.

NoOne would your husband have preferred his boss to do nothing, not contact him, and suddenly discover his employment contract had been terminated because he has taken too long away from his work, without his boss giving him any warning?

That's the quandary the OP is facing here - she doesn't own the business, she has bosses of her own breathing down her neck.

Phine him and tell him to get himself to the gp's and get signed off work

Tyelperion - he would have preferred his colleague (not his boss, just a pissed off colleague) to not phone during his daughters funeral to whine about the unfairness of my DH getting extra holiday because his daughter was dead.

Seriously, did you have trouble reading that?

His colleague called during our daughters funeral, which he knew was taking place, to complain that my husband had taken too much holiday and it wasn't fair.

Jesus Christ I can't believe the things some people take issue with on here.

I'm also interested to know what Mrs SF would actually do, in this situation. That question hasn't been answered yet I notice...

I think some people have missed that this is not a company based in the UK. This man is likely to lose his job if he doesnt return to work.

OP, it's very unreasonable of your company to expect you to have to make this sort of decision.

As many have suggested, you are in an impossible situation.

And as he is in the armed forces the decision for him to take compassionate leave went quite high, given that he was about to be deployed.

He left the country the week after our daughter was buried.

He was in no danger of losing his job, his colleague was just an ignorant arse who considers a dead baby an unreasonable excuse for one week of extra time off. The first two weeks were taken as annual leave.

So the colleague was not warning him of any danger to his employment.

The OP is asking "how long is long enough" to take off work when your child has died. My answer, since you want to know, is "much longer than four fucking weeks."

Why would you be interested to know what I would do in this situation? I think it quite clear from my posts that I would never be in this situation at all. I was offered a job in a country with similar working methods, I turned it down even though the money was excellent.
Those pesky principles again, they cost me money but at least I sleep well at night.

sorry but trying to read through It is not clear where this company is based, lots of drip feeding and suggested locations.

It could be the company is in the middle east and the employee has gone to India

Could someone clarify in bold to make it clear please for others rather than trying to guess

I'm really sorry for your loss NoOne and agree that they phoned at a really cruel time for you both.

I was just trying to say that I think a phone call to give the employee a heads-up that his job is in jeopardy is not an unreasonable stance for the OP to take. Of course that phone call should not be during the funeral and if the OP knows the time and date of the funeral it would be the height of cruelty to phone at that time.

My understanding of this thread is:

• OP is working for a ME company in the ME
• She has a subordinate who has been bereaved in the most awful of circumstances
• Subordinate is from India and has returned there
• OP is under considerable pressure from her own bosses to find out when he feels ready to return to work
• It's likely if he does not return soon he may lose his job and his visa to return

I think the OP is asking for help to figure out what she should do - from the fact she posted here I think she knows 4 weeks is too short but is currently the only thing standing between this poor man and redundancy.

Well assuming the OP cannot go back in time and choose to work somewhere else I think in the circumstance the best thing to do for the colleague is phone him. Ask him how he is. Tell him you are thinking of him. You should also sensitively tell him what is happening with regards to his return to work and your employer's attitude. You could apologise that you are having to break the news but ultimately you must be honest with him and allow him to make a decision in full possession of the facts.

It would be awful to lose your son and your livelihood. The kindest thing is to be truthful and sympathetic. How long he's been off or should be off is irrelevant because it's not within the OP's control.

Because you're so full of 'advice' that actually isn't advice at all. The OP is in this situation, so rather than doing nothing but giving out, try being of some use. You have set yourself up as the expert on this, so enlighten everyone.

Guillotined was that directed at me? I already said upthread what I think the OP should do, and it's what Katie just said as well.

It's an awful situation all round

Classic example on this thread of how a hide poster option would be beneficial...

Seriously, what kind of a twat comes on a thread to be all holier than thou about something the OP can't change and offer bugger all advice? What's next? Going on to behaviour and development or special needs and suggesting the OP should have avoided whatever situation they're struggling with by not having children in the first place? Honestly I despair sometimes. I really do.

I know someone who took a year off - then only went back part time.