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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to insist he returns to work

112 replies

SlightlyBemused · 17/10/2011 06:19

AIBU to consider phoning a work colleague who has been on compassionate leave for more than 4 weeks and insist he returns to work?
The reason for the leave was the suicide of his only DS. He is understandably distraught and has my sympathy. I wish to give him all the time he needs, however pressure from above and critical work elements requiring his attention make me question; how long is long enough?

OP posts:

slavetofilofax · 17/10/2011 08:23

I think you need to talk to him somehow. He can't stay off indefinatly, and it is reasonable for you to have some idea when he is likely to return. You need to tell him that if he doesn't want to come back yet that he has to get signed off by the doctor, if that applies where you are.

If he is being paid, you have every right to know his plans. If he's taking unpaid leave, then you should leave his job open for as long as he needs, but I don't think there is any thing at all wrong with saying that you have to review that in six months.

The company can't stop running because of this. It is very sad and he deserves the support of his employer, but his responsibilty to his job can't just vanish because of this.

scarevola · 17/10/2011 08:26

How long does your company provide paid sick leave? Could you use that length of time as a guide to paid leave now. And would you be able to guarantee right of return - and again, up to what point?

Employers are not bereavement counsellors. Your role here is to be clear and consistent. He does need to know about the nuts and bolts of how long you wean provide paid leave, you need to know when he might be coming back.

Of course there is no reason why covering the logistics cannot be done in a sensitive/sympathetic way. But do bear in mind you will be making things worse, not better, if you leave the practicalities in a muddle.

marriedinwhite · 17/10/2011 08:27

It would be harassment and your HR department should be advising you against it. It would, however, be appropriate to keep lines of communication open on a formal basis. You should be contacting him to ensure he is OK and to let him know that compassionate leave cannot continue forever and that if he is unable to return he should visit his doctor and ensure he is signed off. When he returns to his base country formal medical advice shoudl be sought about when he is likely to be able to return to work and what adjustments are required for him to do so. He shoudl be allowed to stage his return gradually over a period of time rather than feel he has to come back full throttle.

SageMist · 17/10/2011 08:28

What a really difficult position for you. On the one hand I can see that you want to be compassionate and on the other your job means that you have to think of what is good for the company. I worked for a company of 30 employees, and I know that the company could not have afforded to pay for compassionate leave for longer than about 2 weeks. Is your company still paying him? If they are then I guess that something will have to change soon.

I think that a carefully and compassionately worded letter would be the best way to go, giving your colleague some options. Perhaps suggesting you will hold his job open for a period of time, but that pay (if you are still paying him) will reduce over time. I do think that you need to get some HR advice on this though, can you company afford to get in some freelance HR help?

HecateGoddessOfTheNight · 17/10/2011 08:30

I would be telling management that if they want him back so badly - they can tell him themselves! It's amazing how callous people can be when they are getting others to do their dirty work for them.

I wonder how many members of your management would call this poor man up themselves and try to get him back to work.

ionysis · 17/10/2011 08:35

I work in the middle east too - the UAE.

As he is Indian, and if your bosses are local I can understand your difficulty - sympathy for their asian colleages is not likely to extend indefinitely. Also I assume the labour laws where you are (as where I am) are of little help.

In your position I think I would have to contact him, expressing your sympathy and understanding but explaining that you are coming under pressure from the bosses to understabd what his plans are.

In my company (small, locally owned) I reckon I might get 6 weeks before I got hauled back in this situation - or pay stopped at a minimum. If I was Indian I would probably get less. This is a country which gives 45 calendar days for maternity leave so employee rights are not top of the agenda.

I imagine the company could terminate his employment (and thus sponsorship) with no come back in any case. He will know this and will understand the position you are in.
In my business a "temp" cover would not be possible and we would HAVE to replace him if he was out of the office indefinitely.
Have you got a copy of the labour law? If not get one from HR and read up on how much compassionate leave is recommended / allowed.

I don't envy you your position in ths at all. BUT you are likely to handle this better and more sensitively than the HR people in my experience (have seen all sorts of horrific unprofessional behaviour out here).

EvilVampireFrog · 17/10/2011 08:41

Poor guy.

But you are in a horrible position. Could you email and try and gently explain the position?

I have to say, in terms of my industry (teaching) it is quite clearly laid out in the contract how much compassionate leave one can take - it's 3 DAYS for the death of a close family member, 6 days for spouse.

And that's in this country, in the public sector.

trixymalixy · 17/10/2011 08:43

Unbelievable!!

My friend was off work for 6 months when her son died and really she needed longer.

BrandyAlexander · 17/10/2011 08:49

Poor bloke and you. I don't work in the ME but understand the cultural issues particularly wrt Indians and the difficulty of getting temporary staff. I also understand the difficulties when you're under pressure to deliver a crappy message. It's very easy for people who haven't been in this situation tell you that you just don't do it or to say to tell the bosses or HR to do it themselves. Yes, we would all like to do that, until the bosses start making it clear that they see it as part of your managerial responsibilities and implying that you're not good at your job if you can't handle difficult situations. I echo what ionysis said.

ionysis · 17/10/2011 08:52

"Agency" cover may work if he is a typist or manual worker but not if he does anything in a specified field. Also in the middle east they don't really have that concept. You can't just phone an agency and get someone in - they don't exist.

Original poster

SlightlyBemused · 17/10/2011 08:58

There is no mention of compassionate leave in my contract so I assume the same would apply for him. I also understand the labour law says emergency leave can be taken but will be deducted from 30 days annual leave.

So far his salary is being paid and I understand it will continue, but for how long I don't know.

Ionysis You really hit the nail on the head, if it was me the company would be much more forgiving but for Asian staff a whole different rule applies, which is why I am trying to hold them off for as long as possible.

OP posts:

Original poster

SlightlyBemused · 17/10/2011 09:02

and yes termination + sponsorship cancellation could be done without warning so he won't be allowed back into the country.

OP posts:

ionysis · 17/10/2011 09:13

Really you need to WARN him (or remind him) that his job is not safe. Express sympathy but let him know that his sponsorship and employment is at the discretion of the management and that they need to know his plans. Keeping his job open for him doesn't sound like an option. Sad though it is its a fact of life. He is actually very lucky they have let him go for so long, especially on full pay. No way would my company do that for long. If he was a maid or labourer he would have been told "tough luck, finish your contract or get a ban".

Working in a tax free environment has its perks but there are certainly downsides.

You're not doing wrong OP by letting him know his rights (or lack thereof!!)

MrsStephenFry · 17/10/2011 09:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

PattySimcox · 17/10/2011 09:35

MrsSF reading between the lines I don't think the OP is trying to bully him but realises that she is working within the constraints of less enlightened / compassionate management.

I think the OP wants to help him and realises that he is in a vulnerable position re the withdrawal of sponsorship etc if she makes too big an issue of his absence with her management.

At least I hope that is the case

CristinaaarghdellAaarghPizza · 17/10/2011 09:35

Blimey I can't believe people will work with such disgraceful employment conditions just to avoid paying tax :(

Have a OP

Original poster

SlightlyBemused · 17/10/2011 09:38

MrsStephenFry

You've really missed the point. I haven't contacted him, I have been instructed to contact him to return to work. I am from the UK and find the practice in the ME totally unacceptable where I am also a 'FORRINER' and am likely to be fired for not contacting him or refusing to carry out the dirty work, such is the nature of living here.

OP posts:

Hammy02 · 17/10/2011 09:40

I would imagine that work is the last thing on the poor guy's mind. It is just a job FFS. His job is fuck all in the scheme of things.

MollyTheMole · 17/10/2011 09:41

4 weeks? 4 WEEKS?! No it isnt long enough and you bloody well know it

MrsStephenFry · 17/10/2011 09:42

I haven't missed the point. You think you are much better than your employers yet you are going to do their dirty work, and you work for them at all with such practices.
I wouldn't go thinking you're Norma Rae just yet. Bet the cash helps though.

LoopyLoopsPussInBoots · 17/10/2011 09:44

I can't believe I'm reading this.

When DD died, DH's work gave him one week compassionate leave then he had 2 weeks paternity leave (DTD1 was stillborn, DTD2 survived). This wasn't enough. His hatred for his company set in then, and his work got worse and worse. He took voluntary redundancy a couple of weeks ago.

It will not be the best thing for the company in the long run.

And, just because you're told to do something doesn't mean you can't question it.

GalaxyWeaver · 17/10/2011 09:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsStephenFry · 17/10/2011 09:44

Oh, and as you've said, you and your company both know you're a different kind of forriner. do you wear badges or does everyone just know you're higher up the caste system chain?

Peachy · 17/10/2011 09:44

My friend lost her adult son to suicide. She ended up an alcoholic mess and the diea that she could have returned to work in 4 weeks is beyond a joke; I suspect at some point a managed return would ahve prevented the worst collpase for ehr but managed- atsrting off part time when ready then building up.

Original poster

SlightlyBemused · 17/10/2011 09:47

Thanks Galaxyweaver
I'm new to Mumsnet and thought a was a suggestion to take a break so made another cup of tea :)

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