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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to complain to the school about what rugby coach said?

146 replies

olderyetwider · 13/10/2011 13:22

GS (11) has just started rugby coaching as out of hours activity at school. The coaches are sports students from local university. Gs enjoyed his first session very much. While telling me about it he said that the coach said it was a tough game, and they mustn't 'bitch out' when tackled etc. I explored this a bit and apparently the coach said that it means acting like a girl when faced with bigger players etc. (GS also said coach said not to tell teachers about the language)

I can't stand that word, or the denigration of girls implied by it, and it's not the way we've brought him up to think about girls

Is it me being a humourless old feminist, or should I complain?

OP posts:
Original poster
olderyetwider · 13/10/2011 14:10

On balance I think those saying that the young coach told them not to tell because he realised he shouldn't have said it are probably right. I don't think I'll complain, but I still don't like the word, or what it implies.

OP posts:
TheTenantOfWildfellHall · 13/10/2011 14:11

I would complain on the basis that it is an adult behaving inappropriately and then telling children to keep it quiet. Adults should not be telling children to keep secrets.

Your GS was clearly not happy which is why he told you. He deserves to have you stand up for him.

WillbeanChariot · 13/10/2011 14:11

I wouldn't complain. I would talk to GS about the language and why you don;t like it. You are not going to change anything for teh better with this complaint but when he is older your GS may influence the behaviour of his whole team.

I play rugby and I can imagine the context. It's true enough that you can't whinge and moan about getting walloped and kids need to learn that part of it. The coach sounds like a young guy who is probably a player himself and used to hearing that language, and not keeping a lid on it. Probably he said not to say anything because he swore without thinking of it. I do get narked about words that are only used to apply to women (sassy etc- vom) but I use bitching to describe behaviour of both sexes and say cunt etc.

whatdoiknowanyway · 13/10/2011 14:11

Coach should have been through the 'safeguarding and protecting children' training which would include not using inappropriate language. But... young, inexperienced, bit callow. I wouldn't complain this time. If it continues or worsens, then consider action.

Original poster
olderyetwider · 13/10/2011 14:11

Love it Hungrydragon Grin

OP posts:
Blu · 13/10/2011 14:13

I agree with StealthSquiggle, and also that there is a difference between common sense, sometimes, and Chid Protection Policies. But coaches and tutors should abide by these policies even if it goes further than we as paents demand.

IMO 'bitch out' is a horrrible thing to say to 11 year olds, with the meaning 'don't act like a girl' - and it could take hold like wildfire in a primary school playground.

I honestly can't imagine the coach of DS's school football team (very tough - team and coach!) saying this to the children.

But then if he did the girl who is the top striker in the team would probably have something to say!!

Hopefully the coach will have given himself a bot of a fright and will observe better standards. Just because it is Rugby that he is coaching doesnt mean he has to involve them in the habits of some adult rugby players - what next? Groping 'groupies'?

TheTenantOfWildfellHall · 13/10/2011 14:13

I would still tell them tbh. Even if he did realise he shouldn't have done it. Lots of people do things they shouldn't have done and realise it. It doesn't mean it no longer matters.

MrSpoc · 13/10/2011 14:14

i disagree with you TheTenantOfWildfellHall. Sounds like the GS had a really good time and just Op what happened when asked.

I agree if you go complaining then GS will be less likely to confied in you when something real is an issue.

mumsamilitant · 13/10/2011 14:18

Dear God (note this is a figure of speech, I'm not actually addressing him).

Wind your neck in (note this is also a figure of speach, not actually telling you to wind it in]

Grin
squeakytoy · 13/10/2011 14:20

Complain and the student will then either be asked not to go again, or will quit, as it isnt worth the hassle.

In fact, the sports student may well wonder why he is bothering to go into a career where parents come rushing in to complain over the silliest things, and just give up altogether.

A bit of swearing is not going to do any damage of any kind to an 11 year old boy. He wasnt sworn "at".. he went to a rugby training session.. chatted afterwards, as kids do, to his grandmother, who picked up on a phrase and then by her own admission, pried more into it... the grandson is probably wishing he hadnt opened his mouth now as well.

hells1908 · 13/10/2011 14:22

Chillaxe, beeyatch ;)

He was just as likely to tell your son not to be a dck, cck, wnker, pssy, uphill gardener, chutney ferret, gayboy etc about complaining. People swear. And because we're all inherently immature and still obsessed with our/other people's genitals and the sexy business, that tends to be the basis of our swearing. Doesn't make it impressive, and we should all have enough richness and colour in our vocabularies that we could come up with an inoffensive but equally insulting alternative. But we don't. And this was on a rugby pitch. Deal with it.

You are going to make FAR more of a negative impression on your young GS's life if you wade in (over his parents's heads) and complain to the school because it WILL get back to him and he will be mortified. You run the risk of making him look like a right wimp and telltale in front of fellow pupils and teachers. Please try to put him above your principles. Just have a quiet word with him - and QUIET, don't give him a feminist rant - that 'bitch' is still a bit of an insulting word, other people will use it, but he should try not to. QUIETLY!

If you REALLY want to get all pernickety about gender language...the word 'strunt' was also in use in the 16th century as the male equivalent of the c word. Join my one woman campaign to bring it back! Try saying it - very therapeutic. As in 'GS's rugby coach is a strunting STRUNT and should just strunt orf!'

The evidence it was in use? In Shakespeare. As was 'bitch'. And incidentally why's that so awful and 'she wolf' or 'hen' or 'vixen' isn't? And Chaucer? Not exactly renowned for his hi falutin' language. Not bad writers though, the pair of them.

Queen Victoria has an AWFUL lot to answer for, IMHO.

MrSpoc · 13/10/2011 14:24

Hells like these two what do they mean??? chutney ferret, & uphill gardener

notyummy · 13/10/2011 14:29

Both slang for a gay man. Generally used in a homophobic context.....

spiderpig8 · 13/10/2011 14:33

The students will think you're a PITA .the teachers will think you're a PITA and hence I think you can kiss byebye to any chance of your Gs getting picked for the team

HappyJoy · 13/10/2011 14:35

Is it me being a humourless old feminist, or should I complain?

pretty much

finding offence where none is intended, way too prevalent in these good old days of PC Madness

Pagwatch · 13/10/2011 14:35

If you cola in then the sporting staff will view your gs differently to the other children.

If you complain a young student coach may well decide to never coach kids again - and some schools rely on the student teachers in order to be able to teach all the kids separately.

If your gs friends find out that you complained and a coach left or that a fuss was made, they will view that very poorly.

My son played rugby. He does not have sexist views because of me, his family, his own iintelligence and his schooling. Your gs will not become damaged by this situation. If you want to change cultural norms then bring him up to challenge this sort of thing when he is a student coach.

Pagwatch · 13/10/2011 14:36

Cola ? Fucking Nora.

notyummy · 13/10/2011 14:39

BTW, I agree with those saying you should speak to your son about it, but not complain. He will be exposed to various experiences that wont fit with the values you want him to have, but you can't control all of these. I read lots of Enid Blyton whilst I was growing up, that in retrospect was sexist and racist (now my DD loves them I have re-read and seen just how bad it all is!) I have grown up with a very clear understanding of my strength and worth as a woman, and I am not a racist.....despite repeated exposure to Enid and her works Grin.

Original poster
olderyetwider · 13/10/2011 14:41

I'd object to any language like hells describes. Maybe it's normal on an adult rugby pitch (although I hope it isn't), but I still wouldn't accept that it's ok to be used to 11 year olds.

I didn't pry or make a big issue of it, just asked GS what it meant and he told me. I think he was a bit surprised to hear it from someone who is 'a teacher' (like all people at school are when you're that age) but I certainly don't intend to make an issue of it with him. (by the way, not over his parents' heads, I'm his guardian)

Like I said, I'm not going to complain, but will if it's continous rather than a one off mistake on the coach's part

OP posts:
PosieIsSaggySacForLemaAndPigS · 13/10/2011 14:42

Not the crime of the century but pretty awful, given how England Rugby players view women it's baout time rugby, grass roots and all, cleaned up it's act.

incognitofornow · 13/10/2011 14:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

80sbabe · 13/10/2011 14:47

hungrydragon - you are spot on.
My DD has just started rubgy and the girls are far more physical, competitive and aggressive than the boys, they take no prisoners believe you me. Their strategy appears to be - go out there and pummel the opposition into oblivion.

Perhaps the coach in the Op's case was trying to calm down the level of aggression and physical contact on the pitch with his comments Grin

Seriously though, I wouldn't be worried about such a comment especially within the confines and context of a rugby game.
Have we really become so paranoid about examining the minutiae of every remark and comment that our children can't even relate the events of a sports match to us without it being analysed for potential offence ?

We are losing so much from society with this constant political correctness and nit picking of innocent remarks and deeds.
People are scared these days to get involved with community activities or run clubs at schools. A school that can find helpers willing and able to run out of school activities is very fortunate.
If it becomes a very regular comment or is used for bullying purposes then yes by all means complain, but until then let them get on with it and have some fun.

Pagwatch · 13/10/2011 14:50

How some England rugby players view women.

My dh played. I have only had a very few incidents of poor behaviour in twenty years.

My son plays. He does not treat women poorly either. Some of ds1s friends helped out at ds2s disability club. They were crb checked and had the appropriate training and would Beverly dream of using foul or sexist language in front of children.

But to be honest if anyone thinks that many 11year olds have never used dodgy terms like bitch or retard or gay we are not really understanding how children explore shocking language with each other. Then usually they start to think about the terms they are using and grow out of it.

But can we not wrap this whole thing up into a stereotype.

stealthsquiggle · 13/10/2011 14:51

Not that I condone the massively leapt upon by the media off-field bad behaviour, but it is a very physical, testosterone-laden game - in which dangerous play is definitely punished and, interestingly, arguing with the referee or generally having a tantrum is unheard of - so I would say that a little bad language (more rarely heard at the highest level now that there are microphones everywhere) vs. the general lack of respect for anything other than money which is seen in football, is not a bad trade-off.

pigletmania · 13/10/2011 14:51

Yanbu at all! It's not acceptable to speak like that in in front of children. I would complain. Especially they are in a coaching/teaching role.