to think that parents contribute to the sleep issues?

[ChocolateBiscuitCake]

Disclaimer: I have two DC who have not always been brilliant sleepers and go through patches of wakefullness at night/early in the morning (!) but...

I have been reading some of the sleep threads and am really surprised by the number of people who have older babies or toddlers who sleep SO badly whilst claiming that they don't know how to improve the situation and won't do any form of CC.

From my experiences, babies have to learn how to sleep well and they do this by you setting up routines and helping them along the way. If you feed your 12 month old milk in the middle of the night, they will keep waking for milk in the night. If you bring them into your bed, they will want to be in your bed. If you have to lie down and hold their hand, they will expect you to be there holding their hand if they wake up.

Nothing changes overnight and teaching your baby/child to sleep well takes patience and consistency. But leaving a baby to cry for 5 minutes is not going to hurt it and ignoring a toddler whilst you drag them back to bed and not give into their ridiculous demands is not difficult. We are the adults!

AIBU to think that some parents need to be a bit tougher rather than find some miracle cure for poor sleep habits?

I agree with you OP.

Whislt I do think individual children have different propensities to sleep well or not, I think there's a lot parents can do to undermine the ability of a baby to learn to self-settle.

But I think lack of sleep bothers some people more than others. It bothered me a lot, so that far outweighed any concerns about being able to carry through CC.

Some people moan a bit but aren't so fussed that they do anything about it.

Not all babies and children actually need the same amount of sleep either, just as not all adults do. Margaret Thatcher coped well on 5 hours a night, my 2 year old can cope on 7, and won't ever go for more than 9 hours, much to my dismay.

How about.... I don't want to leave my 2.6 year old to cry, I want to lie down with her while she falls asleep, let her fall asleep on my lap, let her sleep in my bed and I want to sleep in hers if she wakes up in the night. And youv'e guessed it I gave her milk through the night until she was 2.

And I loved it/love it.

I also am incapable of sleeping with a child in my bed. I'm sure if I liked it, I would have done that with DS2.

whathappened. - I think that the OP wouldn't be referring to you, because you aren't moaning about it.

jamie thats fair enough.

Actually i have been known to mention it which other people may interupt as moaning.

YANBU

and i speak as someone who has had nightmare sleepers. but nothing cc didnt solve in the end

whathappened - how dare you moan. You (literally) made your bed. Darned well lie in it, lady !!!

I know rod back, well its my rod and my back.

I'm 29 and I still don't sleep thru the night. Bugger all to do with the parenting I got. Some people just crappier sleepers.

Are you a zombie because of your sleeping habits?

It's all very well saying that there are techniques and it just needs the will to do it.
But what if you don't want your screaming toddler to wake up the baby, or your neighbours for that matter?
It's no fun living next door to someone who's inflicting trying out CC on their infant.

TheTenantOfWildfellHall

Not sure where the OP said parents of children with ASD should be tough on them

Thing is, its not always apparent that a child has ASD at this stage.

I have 2 DC, 1 and 2 were good sleepers from a young age[I consider that luck more than anything I did], the 3rd [who is Autistic] wasnt and still isnt, of course back then at that age when people were telling me that I should do controlled crying I didnt know he was Autistic and neither would anyone else in that position.

If he woke and cried it was because he needed something, be that milk/water or the covers wrapping tightly around him.

It is unreasonable to say that CC works for everyone and that if it doesnt its because a parent isnt being 'firm' enough.

But then I dont really agree with it on principle anyway, I agree with the poster that said all it does is teaches them not to cry when they need comforting

If any of mine woke I would check their needs [clean nappy/thirst] and failing that if it seemed all they wanted was some human contact then thats what they got.

They are 12&15 very much independant and have never had any clingyness issues, so I dont think I made any 'rods for my back' or turned them into brats.

Sometimes babies just need a cuddle.

All that said, if a parent wants to do CC and they feel it works for them, I wouldnt dream of trying to convince them otherwise, horse for courses.

Must admit i think too many parents let exhausted toddlers stay up late and fail to get them into a bed time routine at a reasonable time. Kids are then very whingy the next day.

I don't think parents are responsible for ALL bad sleeping habbits - just most bad sleeping habbits.

I think there is a more gentle way of getting older babies to sleep through involving putting the baby down at the right time, having a good routine, doing some CC if needed but mainly being there to hold their hand.

I have four children with different sleeping abilities.
There are so many reasons that parents cause problems with their childrens sleep, a lot have been mentioned. And there are children with different needs. it's never one case fits all is it

my eldest I caused some of the problems . he was never naturally a great sleeper but I couldn't leave him either. He is named after my brother who died of sids and I just couldn't shake the fear of it happening to him.
My second I was more relaxed and he was a more chilled baby anyway. Did he sleep better because he was naturally a more relaxed soul or was it because I was more laid back. i will never know, bit of both I suspect. Even then the fear was there and he didn't sleep through until he was 2ish
My third was prem and I was told to wake her 3 hourly for a feed, prior to that she was a very good self settler.
And so it goes on

A couple I know have never had a bedtime routine for their DD. She is now seven and falls asleep on the sofa in front of the TV at about 9pm. Then she gets woken gently and carried upstairs to be put on the loo and then laid gently into her bed.

If she wakes up 'properly' Mum has to sit with her until she drops off again. I once asked what would happen if she was just put in her bed. The reply was "she trashes her room".
We don't visit much in the evening - four adults all tip toeing around and whispering for hours because of a child that rules the roost.

I agree with OP for that one.

YABU. I started a thread yesterday about my 8 month old DS's sleep. I feel like I've tried everything except CC and CIO. If CC just involved 5 minutes of crying and the baby falls asleep then I would do that but it doesn't. In my experience babies cry for hours and hours for multiple nights with CC. I do think that it's cruel to leave a baby crying for that long when it is distressed.

The "comfort" thing is a circular argument. A child who has a parent rushing to their bedside at the slightest whimper is learning that waking up at night is a big deal, requiring external "comfort". This then encourages histrionics at night, in some cases, which then elicits further fuss from the parents.

Lenin hide it now and find a nice thread to read

I shall use all my rods to make myself a fine and mighty corset