Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that parents contribute to the sleep issues?

397 replies

ChocolateBiscuitCake · 12/10/2011 14:22

Disclaimer: I have two DC who have not always been brilliant sleepers and go through patches of wakefullness at night/early in the morning (!) but...

I have been reading some of the sleep threads and am really surprised by the number of people who have older babies or toddlers who sleep SO badly whilst claiming that they don't know how to improve the situation and won't do any form of CC.

From my experiences, babies have to learn how to sleep well and they do this by you setting up routines and helping them along the way. If you feed your 12 month old milk in the middle of the night, they will keep waking for milk in the night. If you bring them into your bed, they will want to be in your bed. If you have to lie down and hold their hand, they will expect you to be there holding their hand if they wake up.

Nothing changes overnight and teaching your baby/child to sleep well takes patience and consistency. But leaving a baby to cry for 5 minutes is not going to hurt it and ignoring a toddler whilst you drag them back to bed and not give into their ridiculous demands is not difficult. We are the adults!

AIBU to think that some parents need to be a bit tougher rather than find some miracle cure for poor sleep habits?

OP posts:
JamieComeHome · 12/10/2011 18:06

BTW - you don't just leave a child to cry with CC, you go back after increasingly long intervals - 2 mins, 5 minutes, 8 minutes etc. and comfort them.

coraltoes · 12/10/2011 18:17

Not the bit of Spain i come from!

BertieBotts · 12/10/2011 18:19

Controlled crying doesn't even make sense though. Increasing intervals is basically just kidding yourself that it's not as bad as leaving them to cry - they only get one chance to get used to it before having to deal with a longer interval.

If it was leaving them for 2 minute intervals consistently, all night, every night until they were okay with that, then lengthening to 5 minute intervals all night for as many nights until they are okay with that, then 10 minutes for however many nights etc etc, then that would make sense. But doing every single stage in one night just makes it seem really pointless having stages at all IMO.

FanjoForTheMuahahammaries · 12/10/2011 18:19

my DD is 5 this week. she never sleeps through and is up for hours every night. We have been seeing sleep counsellors for 18 months who have now given up because they said we are doing everything right.

OK, she has SN but she just doesn't sleep.

BeyondLimitsOfTheLivingDead · 12/10/2011 18:21

I only have one thing to say on the subject...

"Nothing changes overnight and teaching your baby/child to sleep well takes patience and consistency."
My DS decided overnight at 5 months that he wasnt going to sleep in the cot or moses basket, or anywhere unless he was cuddled or moving. And so we started co-sleeping. We did try CC for a few nights when it first became a problem, but he literally screamed for hours and clearly wasnt working.
He then decided overnight at about 11 months that he would sleep in his cot for 11 hours straight.
The night before he slept through, he was still having milk during the night.
No screaming. No CC. No CIO.
He was ready so he did it, regardless of my lovely stiff back-rod. Hmm

HTH.

pigletmania · 12/10/2011 18:25

Easy to say not when you are faced with the situation. All children are different with varying tempraments. Some like adults sleep more than others. At the time before dd was dx with sN, she was dreadful to sleep, I can count the number of times on one hand that she slept through the night. Yes I did controlled crying (modified degree) but it did not work. DD is 4.5 now and still wakes in the night, and totally melts down if she does not have a drink in the night. I have just come to the understanding that now she has been dx that could be the explanation, and also she functions on very little sleep. Her sleep has improved a lot as she has gotten older, she now just wakes once in the night, and drops of about 8-30pm and wakes usually between 6-7pm with one wake up in the middle for a drink.

AnyoneButLulu · 12/10/2011 18:27

I tend to agree Bertie, if it's going to work harmlessly then it will work with 5 minute intervals, I don't think the gradual increase makes sense (although it makes perfect sense when applied to door-shutting for a wilful toddler who won't stay in bed).

NacMacFeegle · 12/10/2011 18:33

I co-slept with all 3 from birth, have two lovely sleepers and one child who inherited my owl status. Hd and I would be happy sitting up until all hours then sleeping all morning. The other two are out like a light at 7 pm. And up again at the crack of bastard Dawn.

I did have to sleep train my bad sleeper - did it by moving lights out forward by 15 mins a week. Have yet to sleep train me - because of my pattern, I have had less than 8 hours sleep since Monday, SO unfair of the world to expect me to conform to Early.

LeQueen · 12/10/2011 18:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pigletmania · 12/10/2011 18:54

DD must take after my mum, she goes to bed early, wakes several times in the night for food, than wakes up at 5-6am Shock

CatIsSleepy · 12/10/2011 18:55

hmm
just a question for the OP
how do you do controlled crying on a baby/toddler sharing a room with an older sibling? seems a bit unfair on the older one to be kept awake by a load of crying

am lucky (and yes I mean lucky) enough to have 2 good sleepers, who share a room.

Original poster
ChocolateBiscuitCake · 12/10/2011 18:57

I would put the older sibling in a travel cot/mattress in my room for a few nights or pack them off to a grandparents.

OP posts:
SlinkingOutsideInSocks · 12/10/2011 19:06

Not sure why people are coming onto the thread to say, 'well I faff around for most of the evening half an hour in order to get them to sleep, but I don't mind; they'll sleep well when they're ready. Confused

Clearly the OP is not writing about you.

She is posting about people who are complaining about it - wanting actual advice - and yet are not willing to see the answer right under their nose.

We were staying with friends this weekend just gone and their 2.8 year old runs rings around them every nap and bed time. But then again, why wouldn't she? She gets brougt back out to the living room, given bottles, snacks, the whole works. I'd try it on day-in-day-out too, since it works!! She is much wiser than they are. Wink

I say this as someone who despaired of ever getting my 14 MO to sleep well - she still wakes too early for my liking, but with complete consistency (and a lot of love) we're getting there.

Our own 2.8 year old is a dream - no fuss, no bother because he knows bed time is bed time. It also helps to make it into a nice, secure, safe place to be.

Again, there is loads and loads of middle ground between molly-coddling and CC/CIO.

catgirl1976 · 12/10/2011 19:11

My mum used to put us in parts of the house where our crying could not be heard and from birth, if we woke in the night we got cooled, boiled, water in a bottle not milk.

I understand this style has fallen somewhat out of favour............

bigkidsdidit · 12/10/2011 19:17

Gosh YANBU. My DS was such a poor sleeper I had to pay for a sleep consultant - he woke every 45 minutes. A month later he was sleepig 11 hours, and has ever since. All she did was teach me how to let him fall asleep on his own (no CC involved) instead of feeding and rocking to sleep, tiptoeing away, and repeating all bloody night.

Some parents certainly do make their DC into poor sleepers - I was one of them.

IloveJudgeJudy · 12/10/2011 19:19

Agree with pink4ever. I always say that the best bit of advice my DM gave me with DC1 was not to go to him as soon as he whimpered. Leave him for a couple of minutes to see if he really did need something or if he would get himself back to sleep. Have three very good sleepers. That's not to say we haven't had to be tough on a couple of occasions, but we didn't want any DC in our bed.

DB and SIL otoh have had loads of bother with their DC. He has wandered through the house, had loads of different demands given in to, wasn't happy because he wasn't sleeping properly. They just needed a bit of backbone and not to give in to him. It really wasn't in his best interests, even though they couldn't really see it. They envied us our good sleepers, but didn't see the hard work that went in to that. Also, when DC were young my DM told me to swaddle them when they were put in the cot/moses basket. That made loads of difference. She told me that they had only just come out of the close contact of the womb and needed that to feel safe. That also is a great bit of wisdom.

This thread reminds me a bit of the fantastic deputy head on Educating Essex. He said the greatest disservice we do our DC is not to say "no" to them sometimes. He said DC need boundaries to kick against. I definitely agree with that.

Bledkr · 12/10/2011 19:23

I tried cc,DD cried for 2 hrs before i gave up,she was hoarse and looked terrified.i will never do it again,doesnt suit all babies.
Yabu,if its that easy how come you still had some disturbed nights?

NinkyNonker · 12/10/2011 19:24

I'm really enjoying Educating Essex so far, good to see real teachers at work.

IloveJudgeJudy · 12/10/2011 19:25

See, I've done a sort of controlled crying, but I certainly wouldn't have let the DC cry for 2 hours. Why would I do that? Let them cry for one minute, go back. They cry again, leave it for 1 minute, go back, etc. Next night, 2 minutes..... next night, 3 minutes..

I know it's very hard work, but only for less than a week. DC are very clever and learn very quickly.

diggingintheribs · 12/10/2011 19:38

you see, a year ago I would have agreed. did cc and cooled boiled water in the night with DS. He slept 7-7 from 6 m - no problems. The worst I had was him crying for 5 mins. I was very smug at my wonderful parenting!

And now I have DD - 14m and she has slept 7-7 once in all that time. She goes to sleep no problem - self settles etc. If she wakes in the night (if i'm lucky once but usually twice) she will get angrier and angrier until I feed her. And she won't take water - it is milk or nothing.

I have tried everything wrt her food intake during the day and giving smaller quantities at night. no change. and it isn't habit because she wakes up at wildly different times each night. She is just hungry.

So my new plan is just to feed her as little as she will take and hope she grows out of that need!

SlinkingOutsideInSocks · 12/10/2011 19:38

Yes, you do need to say 'no' sometimes.

If you want the sort of children that other adults like and enjoy (or, at the very least; don't mind) spending time around, then you will probably have to use the word 'no' sometimes during the course of their upbringing.

Original poster
ChocolateBiscuitCake · 12/10/2011 19:53

bledkr if its that easy how come you still had some disturbed nights?

Because children wake from teething, when they are sick, or for no apparent reason.

No where in my posts have I said that my children are brilliant sleepers. However, my 3.1 year old is currently grizzling that his finger is sore (it is not, it is actually his toes that are itchy and I have put cream on!) and has just said he saw a dog he didn't like today (on the monitor). I have gone up and simply said, "it is bedtime, I love you, night-night" and he will probably be asleep in the 2 minutes. He is trying his luck and he knows that I mean business and won't pander to him. Obviously, if he called out that he had just been sick or that he was bleeding, I would go and see him!

With younger children, CC does not mean leaving them unattended for 2 hours (as earlier posters have said).

I am talking about those parents who have sleep issues day in, day out and won't be tougher on their children if they want to get a good nights sleep...

OP posts:
RedHotPokers · 12/10/2011 20:14

OP YANBU. People who whinge about their non-sleeping DC, and then go on to say that they rock them to sleep, run to answer every peep, take them into bed with them if they get up, fetch them a drink in the middle of the night if they are restless, don't deserve much sympathy IMO.

And those same people who suddenly attempt to introduce CC/CIO out of the blue, and expect it to be a miracle cure, are living in a dream world.

OP is absolutely on the button when she writes: 'Nothing changes overnight and teaching your baby/child to sleep well takes patience and consistency. But leaving a baby to cry for 5 minutes is not going to hurt it and ignoring a toddler whilst you drag them back to bed and not give into their ridiculous demands is not difficult'.

MissBeehiving · 12/10/2011 20:16

What a load of bollocks. I have had two bad sleepers. Done all the crap that you spout off about. Had no effect on them whatsoever. They just started to sleep when they were ready. But do carry on...

Latsia · 12/10/2011 20:22

Wow. A lot of smug people on this thread.