to think that parents contribute to the sleep issues?

[ChocolateBiscuitCake]

Disclaimer: I have two DC who have not always been brilliant sleepers and go through patches of wakefullness at night/early in the morning (!) but...

I have been reading some of the sleep threads and am really surprised by the number of people who have older babies or toddlers who sleep SO badly whilst claiming that they don't know how to improve the situation and won't do any form of CC.

From my experiences, babies have to learn how to sleep well and they do this by you setting up routines and helping them along the way. If you feed your 12 month old milk in the middle of the night, they will keep waking for milk in the night. If you bring them into your bed, they will want to be in your bed. If you have to lie down and hold their hand, they will expect you to be there holding their hand if they wake up.

Nothing changes overnight and teaching your baby/child to sleep well takes patience and consistency. But leaving a baby to cry for 5 minutes is not going to hurt it and ignoring a toddler whilst you drag them back to bed and not give into their ridiculous demands is not difficult. We are the adults!

AIBU to think that some parents need to be a bit tougher rather than find some miracle cure for poor sleep habits?

My mum had 4 children under 5.

When asked if the youngest slept through the night she always replied 'I have no idea, - I do though!'

and WOWSER!

wtaf op.

Quite interesting what someone said (can't remember who) about cc and sleeping straight through the night causing FSIDS - this may be true in the very early months, however the risk of FSIDS is far higher when co-sleeping until the age of 1

actually althought rare SIDS does and can happen to a baby over the age of one, on another forum i am on a mother lost her 2yr old dd to SIDS :( very sad so yes it can happen.

and if you co-sleep properly following the correct guildlines then it is not a SIDS risk. the main risk for SIDS when sleeping is actually if you fall asleep on the sofa with a baby or dont make your sleeping area safe.

in some areas of the world where co-sleeping is the norm they dont even have a name for SIDS, its not something they have heard of or experience.

www.lactivist.net/?p=629 here is one article, there are lots if you google.

thebabybond.com/Cosleeping&SIDSFactSheet.html this explains in more detail about safe sleeping and how it can actuall REDUCE the SIDS risk.

FSIDS has a reduced risk of occuring up until the age of 1 if there is planned co-sleeping.

Where the risk lies is in unplanned co-sleeping. Which means that the sleeping environment is unsafe, or because the mother has not been doing it from birth, her hormones and instincts aren't in tune.

I've never bought the "if you give a child milk in the night, it will wake for milk" line...it just seems so counterintuitive. If I wake up in the night and I am thirsty, I allow myself a drink of water. I don't think "Oh no, if I have a drink of water tonight, I might wake up for a drink of water tomorrow". When my DS was a baby, I always gave him milk...it was the quickest way to get us all back to sleep. Sometimes he woke up, but mostly he didn't. And the bonus was, if he did have milk in the night, we usually got a lie-in the next morning.

Much as I can see the benefits of co-sleeping (if I had had a child who wanted to co-sleep which I didn't), repeating 'that's what people do all over the world' is getting a bit tiresome. Most people co-sleep because they don't have big houses, they are poor and all have to squash in one room, even don't have a bed but just lie on the floor. There's also research to show that over a certain age, say 4/5, children who co-sleep through poverty do worse at school as they are tired! Co-sleeping suits some, and at some time points like breastfeeding a baby, it may make perfect sense. You may also like sleeping with a partner/child in the long-term. But it is not obvious that sharing a small sleeping area always results in better sleep for everyone.

YABU - we can all solve everyone else's parenting problems

Purpletiger - I always used to wake in the night with a desperately dry mouth needing a drink, so I used to take a glass of water to bed with me. If I forgot, because I was staying somewhere else or something, I used to get up, trot to the bathroom and stick my head under the tap. Then I got a cat who kept drinking from my water glass. Now I know that all I had to do was get a water bottle, or a carafe with a lid or something, but somehow I didn't get round to it. I'd wake in the night and sometimes go to the bathroom, but increasingly decide I couldn't be arsed, and just go back to sleep. After not very long at all I stopped waking in the night. So that rather convoluted story leads me to conclude that actually, waking in the night for a drink IS a habit rather than a need.

Do parents contribute? It depends on the baby.

Some babies just won't sleep well, and it doesn't matter much what you try. I've had one of those. Not a lot you can do.

However, babies that can sleep well - that's where the parent has an influence. If you take the easy option at every juncture, you may well create sleep problems.

..or at least perpetuate sleep problems.

Rhubarb that is really my point with night feeding once babies are established on 3 meals - it is definately habit rather than need. I have also experienced waking up in the night for a drink and then it became like clockwork because I did it several nights running with a cold (thats one time that I never refuse dcs drink, when they are ill and have a temp) and then it continued until I made the decision to ignore ......the waking stopped.

so if your child woke up in the night and they wanted a drink unless they had a cold or a fever you would refuse them

how strange

My cousin says no drinks at all after 8.30

If I'll it's different but her dc got into a habit of getting up and asking for
A drink and then leaving it etc

It worked wonders for her

Freud perhaps when you have had a bedwetting child and seen a specialist about it you could understand my reasons. In our house there is no drinking after 630 (1 hour before bed). If they drink enough during the day it isn't required as it is a physiological response to dehydration in older children. Mine are encouraged to drink all day.

Oh and that has cured dds problem

but what if she wakes up really thirsty what do you say no you can not have a drink go back to sleep. i thought you had young children

i just let mine take a sports bottle of water with them to bed, it sits on the shelf next to their bed, so they can wake and a have a drink if they need to without waking me, not rocket sience.

and people taking about nutritonal need are missing a huge point that with a bfeeding baby it isnt just about nutrition! bfeeding is about much much more than that hence the need to bfeed during the night.

fwiw my 2 formula fed babies both stopped having milk in the night much earlier than my 3 bfed children, but they still 'woke' or stirred in the night but they didnt want milk, they needed other comfort and as they were (are in the case of dd) in our bed that was easily met wiht a pat, cuddle etc without any of us really waking up properly.

Freud they don't ever wake in the night/ get up unless ill (both dds) so it is never an issue. If they are ill then of course they can have a tiny drink of 1/4 cup of water. They won't have a full cup though. My dcs are 5 and 3 yo. DD1 was ff and slept 12 hours from 6 weeks. DD2 was bf to 6mths and slept 7-7 from 8 mths. No getting up since .