to be exhausted with my friend's Chronic Fatigue Syndrome?

[LemonDifficult]

My friend has been diagnosed with CFS. Over the past 6 months or so she's been struggling with tiredness. She's had blood tests which found nothing, she's looked into herbal medicine and so on. A couple of weeks ago the GP said it's CFS.

During the past few months she has become more and more self absorbed. She is single, she wants to meet someone and have a family and is feeling the pressure as she's in her late 30s. Along with this taking up much of our conversations, she talks constantly about her tiredness, or just other aspects of her life. Almost nothing about me, except on a couple of occasions some bitter digs about how parents are so rude/thoughtless/whatever. I'm sympathetic but beginning to get sick of it. I'm also sad about it because we have been great mates. I try, I really do, but my frustration with her is getting the better of me.

If she was to ask me I'd say I think it's depression or stress by another name with sleepy side-effects, but if I so much as hint at that I get the brush off. In my view, she needs a serious amount of counselling to deal with the trauma of losing both her parents when she was young and various other issues that have come up along the way. She has barely had a proper relationship - the last one was 12 years ago. That the CFS might be in anyway be a MH issue is a non-starter with her.

So AIBU? Is this CFS absolutely out of my friend's hands? And at what point am I allowed to say, 'I've done my duty as a mate and listened to how hard it is not being able to get up until noon. Now I'm fed up with your jellyfish comments about the evils of 'screaming babies' or whatever'?

No I've been here for a while actually under various names. I doubt there are any pandas on here to be offended by my name but if there are I'd gladly change it. You are posting about your 'friend' - an actual real person. Yet you think a sick joke is appropriate as a title for the thread? I assume it was intentional as you haven't said otherwise.
Anyway I've said my bit. I didn't expect it to lead you to have an attack of conscience/personality change.

So you do what all friends do then. Does that mean I'm a carer to all my friends?

Meh, what small thought I gave my thread title was that it was mildly witty. Not expecting it to touch a nerve.

You're right. Taking the piss out of debilitating conditions is very witty

No,no, I AM exhausted. But have retained a sense of humour.

I'm still hoping to hear whether anyone has insight into how much can reasonably be expected of my friend, in terms of her taking any control over her CFS. Is sinking into it the only option? Or might she tackle the negativity (towards me/parents in particular)?

Well I would imagine that once she gets the right treatment and her condition improves. Her mood and demeanour will improve.

My sister suffered from ME/CFS for seven years. I watched her turn from a dynamic events organiser to someone who couldn't even get up the stairs.
I would agree with you that it's linked to the brain; it is not a purely physical illness. But does that make it any less chronic? Certainly not.

My sister was lucky to have a good support network with her friends and family who would do anything for her - because that's what she needed.

And that's what your friend needs too, but if I was you I'd back off and let her get help from the people who are actually willing to give it, rather than so called friends who are happy to belittle her condition and slag her off behind her back. So it's not about you for a while - deal with it or get out of her life.

And whilst we're at it, you can fuck right off with your 'witty' subject title. Would you have written 'My friend's breast cancer is getting right on my tits'?
No, didn't think so.

OP, it seems to me there are two sets of issues here: firstly, your friend is unwell with no immediate prospect of recovery, and secondly she is unhappy and making what you experience as repeated digs at you and your family situation. Obviously the two are related - who wouldn't be unhappy having received a diagnosis of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome?

I get the impression that it's difficult right now because these two things are tangled up. That maybe you feel unwilling to challenge her on unkind or sniping remarks because you're trying to be supportive to her during a difficult time, and so feel that making your own hurt known to her might be seen as in some way insensitive.

I'm not sure that in doing so you're really doing your friend - or your mutual friendship - a favour. She doesn't have a choice about being ill, that's true. But she does have a choice about making cruel remarks to you; and while no doubt she needs a lot of support and patience right now from people that care for her, that doesn't automatically give her carte blanche to be unpleasant as well. Patience and forbearance is one thing, but real love and affection for another person implies mutuality, which means making them aware when they've hurt you.

This doesn't have to be done in a way that's loaded with guilt and obligation (either your guilt because you're not ill like her, or feeling that she has an obligation to you because you're 'being nice'). But in the spirit of equal friendship, in the face of adversity, you can and should be sympathetic and supportive while acknowledging and expecting her to acknowledge your own feelings when she says something unkind to you.

Taking the piss out of sexual harassment is pretty witty too. Who wins? no-one. Move on.

Hang in there lemon.

Well the only 'dig' that has been mentioned is that the friend wasn't happy that the next door neighbour is having a baby and thinks it will disturb her sleep and no-one would want to buy the house. I'm a mum and if someone said that to me there is no way I would consider it a dig

It's the name a character in South Park that teaches the kids about sexual harassment. I don't find it offensive. If anyone does I'll gladly name change as I name change regularly anyway. Not in the same league as thinking your friends chronic illness is comedy material imo.

You just seem basically fucked off that she made a comment about children - not even your children I hasten to add. What she said was pretty mild compared to your 'diagnosis' of what you think is wrong with her - or not as the case may be.

Debilitating illness can be all consuming when people are first diagnosed, it can be a hard thing to adjust to. They behave much the same as those going through bereavement/heartbreak in that they can't see past it for a while and have no interest in anything else.

My advice is to talk to your friend and say that you would appreciate some support from her once in a while and that you can't just keep going over and over the same ground with her all the time as it doesn't seem to help her and it is depressing the hell out of you. If she's a nice person she will try to accommodate you, if she is the selfish, child-hating, illness-faking person you seem to think she is then she won't and you will have your answer.

And whilst we're at it, you can fuck right off with your 'witty' subject title. Would you have written 'My friend's breast cancer is getting right on my tits'?

Gross, dickie. And stupid and humourless, too. I presume you know that having a friend with breast cancer doesn't actually affect your tits. Whereas, in this case, I am actually tired.

Oh, it's not just the comment about selling the house - that's just an e.g - there's plenty more in that sort of theme: 'stuck next to a child on the bus' type comments.

It's a tasteless pun all the same which I think is the point she was making.

I think it's a very difficult question, whether to offer practical advice and support or just a listening ear. It depends on the friend and the dynamic between you. I have certainly urged friends to go to the doctors or take their meds when I see them declining, but it's not always appropriate, and the person can end up feeling you are undermining them and not listening to them. If she doesn't respond well to your opinions/suggestions and is highly defensive, I would stop making them. She will find her own way though the, I have one friend who simply can't take any advice on anything, from her children sleeping/eating problems to her health problems, she's hypersensitive even to suggestions you might be implying that her version of events is not the only one. Others are receptive to different angles and approaches, gently put. You know her well, so I would go with what causes the least conflict for you.

And do challenge her if she's insensitive about making remarks about the family (and I do think saying 'who would want to live next to a baby?' to someone who has a family is pretty insensitive)

Sometimes black humour sees you though when coping with friends/families' depression/illnesses, better to make a joke and be a great friend (which the OP sounds, if she's inviting her over for Christmas).

Lemon - kids can be annoying. Particularly when they aren't your own. I can say that having them myself.
I wouldn't relish being kept awake by a screaming newborn (I didn't love being kept awake by MY screaming newborn) and I'm not even ill. Seriously if someone said something like that to me it wouldn't even register.

I don't really class someone joking about their friends debilitating illness and basically taking a straw poll on the internet as to whether to ditch them as a particularly good friend tbh.

OP the very fact that you have posted about it shows you care about your friend. If you didn't, it wouldn't bother you so much. You'd just walk away. Ignore those who are implying you are uncaring or unkind to your friend.

Talking about CFS and/or depression on MN always raises a few hackles. Some posters have been unnecessarily harsh.

The idea of a trip out with your friend while having something 'external' to focus on and talk about is a good one. Could you take her to the theatre or to a gallery for the day or something? Nothing that will be too exhausting for her but acknowledging she's had a rough ride of it and that you'd like to treat her. If there is no change in her treatment towards you during this type of interaction then it might be best for your own wellbeing to back off for a little.

When you have more energy you can re-engage with her.

Exactly the point I was making SHPP I certainly wasn't trying to be humorous, there really isn't any humour to be found here.

My OH has MS. He is pretty amazing deals with it far, far better than I ever could.
However it does sometimes make him very grumpy and snappy and no matter how much I love him, care about him or worry about him - I do find that very hard to cope with.

Sometimes I need to have a word about it. It probably makes me sound a heartless cow but it is very hard to live with someone being nasty and rude whatever the reason is. There are other ways of dealing with it and I am totally commited to helping him find them. I just dont want to be his emotional punch bag.

If I didnt speak to him about it he could slip into a lifelong habit and how would that affect our partnership and our children?

It sounds as if your friend has found a way of 'coping' and its to be demanding and moany and self absorbed. It is understandable but its not sustainable if she is to have any sort of life. She will eventually find herself alone and that would be very sad.

Jesus Wept.

Your "tiredness" compares not one tiny jot against the bone crushing exhaustion your "friend" is feeling.

What's with all the CFS bashing around here lately?

MrsDeVere, that's true about me not wanting her to become lonely. She's not really in a place to make new friends but she's also draining her old ones. I know I'm lucky because I have DH to talk to if any thing comes up with me. She doesn't have that relationship support, so her friends, indiscriminately become it, and most of those frienships are affected. I'm now running out of patience with it. I'm also dead worried that she's going to stymie her career with this.

(They knew she was going a bit loopy with stress at her work and have been sympathetic.)

And I can't help but feel: this ISN'T cancer, she COULD do more.

It's not CFS bashing, Shirley. I'm wondering at what point someone with CFS becomes responsible for the negativity, and what is attributable to the illness. I've said it sounds a crap illness, and I'm not doubting how real it is.