to be exhausted with my friend's Chronic Fatigue Syndrome?

[LemonDifficult]

My friend has been diagnosed with CFS. Over the past 6 months or so she's been struggling with tiredness. She's had blood tests which found nothing, she's looked into herbal medicine and so on. A couple of weeks ago the GP said it's CFS.

During the past few months she has become more and more self absorbed. She is single, she wants to meet someone and have a family and is feeling the pressure as she's in her late 30s. Along with this taking up much of our conversations, she talks constantly about her tiredness, or just other aspects of her life. Almost nothing about me, except on a couple of occasions some bitter digs about how parents are so rude/thoughtless/whatever. I'm sympathetic but beginning to get sick of it. I'm also sad about it because we have been great mates. I try, I really do, but my frustration with her is getting the better of me.

If she was to ask me I'd say I think it's depression or stress by another name with sleepy side-effects, but if I so much as hint at that I get the brush off. In my view, she needs a serious amount of counselling to deal with the trauma of losing both her parents when she was young and various other issues that have come up along the way. She has barely had a proper relationship - the last one was 12 years ago. That the CFS might be in anyway be a MH issue is a non-starter with her.

So AIBU? Is this CFS absolutely out of my friend's hands? And at what point am I allowed to say, 'I've done my duty as a mate and listened to how hard it is not being able to get up until noon. Now I'm fed up with your jellyfish comments about the evils of 'screaming babies' or whatever'?

OP I think you are getting a tough time here. It is very hard when a friendship becomes uneven for whatever reason.

No, I stick up for her, I don't slag her off. But I'm coming round to the other point of view.

do your best op - i sound bitter because my wide social circle has now all but disappeared.there is a massive social stigma to this illness.

I have cfs. I try not to talk about it because it is by is nature terribly boring, who wants to be bored by how In pain and tired you are? Just because you're Ill doesn't mean it has to become everyone elses problem.

I get pissed off when people indicate it's a mental illness (or more commonly "all in your head"- as a, it's inaccurate and b, mental Illness is not causing pain so bad I am constantly taking pain killers is it? It's just a daft thing to say, and seems to indicate a few weeks of Prozac and you'll be just dandy. It's unhelpful and the people who say it don't usually know what they're talking about.

It's a difficult situation that you are in. I have been there in the same situation as you with a friend who seemed to be obsessed with the difficulties she had as a result of ME.

I did try to be supportive for her, but it was difficult when all she would talk about was what she could not do as a result of her illness. It was incredibly draining to try and support her and in the end we fell out over it. She started music lessons, and I was interested to ask her about what she had learnt etc, but every question I asked was met with an explanation of how difficult it had been to get there, how she had to have a sleep at a friend's house before she could come home, but she might have to give it up because she didn't feel able to drive at night. She just wasn't interested in talking about the lessons themselves.

I tried to suggest to her that she might actually feel better about herself and her illness if she focussed on what she could do rather than what she couldn't do.

Unfortunately, this went down like a lead balloon at the time, and my friend stopped speaking to me for a long time. We are now good friends again, and she did later admit that she had overreacted to what I said. I also admitted that I had gone about things in a clumsy way, even though I had good intentions.

The sad thing is that I had said what I did with good intentions. I had ME myself for a while, and whilst I am completely sure that it has physiological causes, I also think that my symptoms were very affected by my mood. One thing that helped me with my recovery was to focus on the things I could do, and wanted to be able to do again, and not to pay too much attention to the amount of time I had to sleep or rest for.

One thing that I did manage to find common ground with my friend, that enabled us to both enjoy spending time together, was to watch films together. I would go to her house, we would have a quick trip into town to choose a film to rent and to buy some wine, and then we would chill out and watch the film for the rest of the evening. Having something external to focus on was good for us both.

I have CFS and when I first had it I was very poorly with it. I lost my job (as a teacher) and it made my marriage and friendships very hard work. I wasn't able to do anything in the evenings so couldn't meet up with friends, was at home a lot on my own during the day as there isn't a lot a sick person with no kids can go to. Sometimes getting upstairs to the toilet was physically almost impossible. Going out to the shops required planning, being sure there was a seat available regularly and/or someone with me.

It is a horrid horrid horrid illness, and little understood. I'm not surprised she's consumed with it as its terrifying to consider the possibility of facing the rest of your life with a disability, especially when friends don't really understand, or think you are "just" depressed (not that I think depression is minor either - its also muchly misunderstood). Many very mentally stable people after a long period of cfs can become depressed simply at facing life in such a limited capactity (similar to suddenly being faced with any other disability really). I was terrified I was never going to work again, have a family, be part of scoiety, really "live". I can imagine she would be too. I was very bitter, and still am to a certain extent. I have an oxbridge education, yet living a very basic lifestyle.

Luckily I have a very good cfs clinic near me and for a lot of people symptons can be managed. With regular rests (I started with 20 minutes of lying down, no distractions, tv, reading or anything) every 2 hours can help. As can pacing activity and not overoding it. There are things that can help but it rarely fixes it, just helps you to manage it better.

It is hard supporting someone facing a life changing illness - but your support will be invaluable to her if you can be there for her. Maybe you can help by reading up a bit more about it, finding out what it is like for people with cfs/ME and being better informed yourself so you can understand a bit better. For your own sanity maybe limit how often you call her/see her if its getting you down. When finding her hard maybe remind yourself how grateful you are that you aren't ill.

Serenitysutton - psychological illness can cause physical pain. Many of my clients suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and whilst there is nothing physically wrong with them, they suffer from severe muscle and joint pain, and/or headaches. You literally see their pain come and go depending on whether they are exposed to their stressors.

Also, I'm sure that almost all of us have had a stress headache at some point in our lives. It doesn't make it any less painful than one caused by a stonking hangover, for example, and it is no easier (often harder) to get rid of, but it is real pain caused by a psychological issue.

LemonDifficult Tue 04-Oct-11 22:57:40
"As an aside, why do many (some) people with CFS seem so determined that CFS couldn't be a mental health illness but must be a physical illness, as though a mental illness was some how an innately lesser affliction?"

I think there are two reasons.

One is that there is still a lot of stigma attached to mental health problems and they may have good reason to fear that they will suffer from this if their illness is defined as MH-related. THere are still a fair few people around who seriously seem to believe that you can just make the decision to "snap out" of a mental illness; though the same people never seem to go around trying to help people to snape out of pneumonia or appendicitis.

The other reason is that they may well be afraid that labelling a possibly physical illness as mental could mean that there is a stop to further research/diagnosing which means potential treatments are overlooked.

When the consultant who saw my dd for joint pains decided it was all in her mind I was terrified, not because I am prejudiced against mental health sufferers, but because I realised a mental health diagnosis would mean that all further physical investigations would stop, and if there was something physically wrong it would remain untreated.

In the event I was proved right: my dd did have a purely physical condition and the docotr's treatment of her (supposedly mental) condition by making her push against her pain is believed to have done her permanent physical damage.

I believe many sufferers of CFS have similar fears: not so much of the stigma as of the consequences for the choice of treatment.

Serenity mental issues can cause physical pain and yes, prozac can sometimes sort it out. Have you never thrown up from anxiety? Never been unable to sleep because of stress? I have. I take ADs, try to get enough sleep, exercise, and eat well and my symptoms have reduced. Not saying its the same for you, but it does happen.

TBH, it sounds like your friendship may have run its course. Happens sometimes. But because she is in a bad place you feel bad telling her. She's a jellyfish who needs more time than you can give because of your child. She is self absorbed and not as happy for you as she could be. And that causes you to resent her then feel guilty. What you want is to hear that it's ok to walk away at least for now. You feel overwhelmed by her neediness.

1. She needs a support group and local help.. google it 2)Is she getting all the help she needs? direct.gov.uk for benefits advice; she's entitled to a lot, not all of it means tested.
2. get her to join a dating agency and maybe a social group for singles of both genders. Then take a step back. Send the odd email or text to stay in touch but cut back on your contact, blaming your needy baby.One day the friendship may get back on track but for now, you can backpedal. You're there if she really needs you, but not for her real neediness. When you have more energy perhaps she won't drag you down so much. Try something calming for yourself like yoga- when she sees the help it gives you she may be able to try it herself, when she feels up to it. The condition fluctuates and may get better over time, who knows?

Thanks for all the replies so far. This issue has been bothering me for ages but it reached a head today when my friend said she'd like to sell her flat because next door are going to have a baby (and once that's happened 'I won't be able to sleep and no-one will want to buy it with a screaming baby next door, I certainly wouldn't') but can't because of her sheer exhaustion etc, etc. I left it but it was a dig at me: babies are a bit shit and selfish and right thinking people don't like being near them. I said nothing, I'm just getting fed up with the theme.

Serenity, my friend hasn't complained of pain afaik.

Thistle, the music lesson conversations are EXACTLY like the conversations we're having.

UsingaP - It does sound a crap illness. It really does.

She will get better if she helps herself. Depressed people do sleep a lot, I did.

Oh I know that stress can manifest itself physcially, for sure, but if you understand your illness and you know it's physical (ie exhertion is the only thing that triggers it) then it's patronising to be told otherwise by people who know nothing about it. I'll listen to my Gp/ specialist Over someone who has no idea and has never examined me.

There is also, with Cfs a huge grey area over cause and effect. Yes many people with cfs have depression but is that a result of the illness or is it causing the illness? My understanding is there is no definative answer.

I could probably understand it better if I was subjecting her to my babies, but they're both well out of that stage. And, despite them being the total centre of my universe, I barely ever mention them to her unless she directly asks (nor to any of my other single friends for that matter...).

And also, agree with letsblowthistacostand. I have had mh issues with physical symptoms and vice versa. Sleep ,vitamins.. all good. Take the happy pills if doc thinks they'll help. Positive thinking etc. Only she knows how she feels and she needs peer support from other sufferers of this real and terrible illness.

Lol, sounds like you are really biting your tongue.. I hope you have other friends with kids? Sounds like a one way street at present, I hope it won't always be like that.. but sounds like you need space from her for a bit.

cory - I can imagine that someone with CFS could fear that there was something else going on. In my friend's case, though, while I wouldn't say she'd pleased with the dx, I also wouldn't say she's uneasy with it. I think she thinks she has CFS - and that it's definitely not a MH thing. No way.

She's certain it's physical, and definitely unrelated to fearing where she is in her life, and where's she's going, and feeling the enormous pressure of a million things and decisions in the past, and the terror of never having a family or finding a husband. But as someone who's listened to her obsess over the last 18 months, I'm not certain.

OP- YANBU. Your friend is offloading an awful lot onto you and not being any sort of friend in return. Sometimes people need professional help when it becomes too much for a friend to carry on their own. In your shoes I would make a few phone calls for her to establish some outside help/counselling and quietly and subtly reduce your hours of contact.

It's not selfish to realise a friendship is more than you can handle.

This is one of the nastiest posts I've read on here. I saw the title and thought is was a troll on a piss take. If you're a friend of this woman OP I wouldn't like to meet her enemies.
Do you have any medical expertise which leads you to doubt your friends gp op?
When people feel like shit all the time is does tend to become quite an issue and yeah you probably talk about it a lot. How very tiresome for you .

You are not a friend to this woman - you may have been once but you aren't now. If I were you I would walk away (you seem to want to and to be looking for an excuse to do so) but expect the same thing to happen to you if/when you get any kind of chronic illness. In my experience most people can't understand chronic illnesses, they expect people to be ill for a few days and then get better - unless they are ill with cancer and then it's a whole different story.

For those blathering on about ME being anything to do with being mentally ill and the pain being psychosomatic, this is the sort of crap that has been peddled about ME/CFS since the late eighties. Thousands of ME sufferers were more or less forced into taking anti-depressants because doctors and psychiatrists didn't know how to treat CFS/ME and so wanted to label it as a mental illness - not that there is anything shameful about having a mental illness either. The trouble with this was that when people with depression are given anti-depressants they tend to get better whereas the vast majority of people diagnosed with ME/CFS didn't. It was only after this farcical 'treatment' of truly vulnerable people failed that organisations such as the World Health Organisation started to take ME/CFS seriously as a neurological - ie physical - illness. Just because you can't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We had no idea viruses how viruses worked or if they even existed until last century but it didn't mean they weren't there did it?

So, walk away OP, but get ready for all your 'friends' to dump you when the going gets tough - 'cause that's generally what happens.

YANBU OP. Being a friend is one thing, but when you are expected to be a confessor, counsellor and psychotherapist as well then it can get too much. No matter how genuine the problems of the friend, there can come a point where you can't cope with it and I don't think it's heartless to admit that in the slightest. Spend more time with people that make you feel better, less time with the ones that make you feel worse. Life is too short.

I think her having help with her past would be good.

Cfs does exist but I've also read a piece by
A doctor who has noted that many people (not all before anyone gets all pissy) who present with symptoms of cfs etc also have shit life syndrome, they have often had a hard life and that is how that grief manifests itself, very real symptoms advert poison etc but the cause can be mh based.

I am truely saddened by this thread. Sounds like me. I have had one drama, after crisis, after drama. My friend came round to see me and I moaned on for atleast 10 minutes about how shit my diabetes was, and how the top consultant in the country is now telling me that they think there is little more that can do for me. But then I said, enough of this shit, how are you doing ? And we laughed and laughed at her dh's exploits at trying to get a patio laid.
Infact, 2 schoolground single mums, (one who has had minor strokes, with a dh who left her, a mum who died and a daughter who seems to have wierd diabetic fits, but who they don't think is diabetic. And the other mum, who has gone blind in one eye, who is fighting for DLA ( as I have) and who has a child who she thinks is Aspergers,with school being unsupportive( was thinking to myself, I can help you out there, because I have been there myself), I've invited both round for coffee. I did this largely to be friendly and to listen to someone elses woes for a bit and to give someone else a bit of sympathy, instead of listening to my own shit.
Let this freindship go, OP. You clearly want to. Really glad your not my friend.