to wonder how many people on here use physical discipline ..

[havinhoops1974]

compared to past generations??

I was thinking you hear so may of the older generation talking openly about using physical discipline on their kids compared to now where I almost hear people whispering it, but at the same time giving the old 'it doesnt do them any harm'

personallyn I dont advocate it , should always be a last resort, however I wont cricify someone who has slapped wrists etc at their wits end.

What are the views of MN???

I agree Narky (with your first post).

No, I don't use smacking. I use The Voice and The Look and, occasionally, the temporary loss of something special.

I do know a couple of families who do use it and I have to say, it doesn't seem to be very effective. Recently, we had to sit through a meal in a restaurant where our friends' children were running riot. Neither parent seemed to have any kind of sanction for them other than a tap on the bottom which clearly wasn't working. I think I would have given up with any method that didn't guarantee me a quiet meal

My parents used it although I have to say it was more abusive than a tap on the hand, and seemed to be more about fear and retribution than teaching the children self-control.

Every time this is discussed on here the same old fingers in the sockets never did me any harm lines are churned out. It is wrong to hit unless you are saying you are happy for your children to learn from you that they can use it as a tool themselves. You are teaching them that someone bigger can use force to get their point across. Interesting that those who condone it always become very aggressive very quickly

Oh buggery bollocks I just typed a great big long post and then lost it

Of cousre there is a difference between a smack (such a genteel work for hitting) and a beating - however in my mind a smack is the thin end of the wedge, and both are forms of violence.

I don't think any punishment means humiliation. Grounding certainly doesn't need to be humiliating. I don't have a thousand rules, but I do have some non negotiables, and dd knows if she does x, y or z she will have a privilege revoked as a consequence. No humiliation required.

To be honest it is easier as they get older, as a teen now I do less of the rule/consequences thing, and we manage most things by consultation.

No smacking here at all - I agree with puffin - I was very occasionally smacked as a child but that was totally ineffective. What made a difference was restrictions (bed with no story) or something "restorative": e.g. clean up when I made the mess etc.

DH was never smacked despite being a VERY difficult child: he admires his parents, his dad particularly, for sticking to other methods of disciplining during that period when everyone else was suggesting "a firmer hand" (he became a totally responsible and controlled teenager).

Besides, DD had a "lashing out" phase: answering to that with more violence would have been totally confusing to her. How could I possibly convey that hitting is bad if then I do it?

its funny noddy i would have said the same thing about the people that dont condone it.

Well thinking back I can remember a lot of discussions about this and it doesn't usually go that way. I am hiding the thread now though as it never ends well. Hitting children is wrong if it worked you would only do it once and there would be no endless attempts to justify it and furthermore it is illegal in some places!Bye !

Yesterday at soft play another child hit my DS full in the face. A deliberate, WWF-style jumping smackdown. There was no reason for it; DS had been playing with him (or so he thought :(). This boy had already smacked my DS on the back for no reason, which had gone unnoticed by his mother although not by me. When I pointed out the face-slapping incident to his mum (en route to gathering up my sobbing 3yo), she marched over and smacked her child on the bum before making him say sorry. He said sorry, but didn't look sorry.

Although I have on occasion put my son in time out/held onto him in order to make sure he hears what I have to say, I hope I will never hit him or my daughter. I just don't think it would work - apart from anything else, I would lose respect for myself as a parent so why wouldn't they feel the same? Which is not to say I haven't had a few moments where I felt so angry and out of control that the thought occurred to me, but that's precisely the time when it would be worst to act on it.

I wasn't hit particularly as a child but I do remember one incident where my dad smacked my legs before sending me to my room. Cannot remember AT ALL what the smacking was for, but remember being smacked as clear as day.

I have used physical discipline on my DS when he is hurting his baby sister. It would have been after I have tried other ways to get him to leave her alone and then on occassion I have seen red and grabbed him and pushed him away or grabbed his hands and yelled at him. I'm thoroughly ashamed of myself when this happens and I feel guilty for days after.

My parents did smack me a few times as a child, but I don't think it's done me any harm and it was only done in extreme circumstances, like once I remember me trying to set fire to the dining room chair and I remember my mum smacking me for it.
Now I have children, I can actually understand better why they smacked me when they did. It is a very hard job raising chidren and I forgive them the occasional loss of control they had when handling me, they are human afterall.
But smacking regularly I wounldn't have forgiven ofcourse.

Before i go can i just say why is it always a last resort? If you have no problem with it and it works why don't you smack first and get the result you are after quicker rather than using other ineffective methods?

'many will not agree with this and will cry out against my use of thing like jabs which is for saving them from illness but not everything we do for our children is pleasant, punishing them in any form is part of that but it is in their best interests'
Nobody's going to say that you shouldn't give children their jabs because hey hurt, are they? They would be very very stupid if they did. And of course some elements of parenting aren't pleasant.But some are necessary- some aren't.
T

If you wouldnt hit an adult because they were doing something which you had told them not to then you shouldnt hit a child.

I would never intentionally hurt my DD. A few weeks ago at the park she fell off a seesaw so I grabbed her to stop her hitting the ground hard. As I did I caught her har and pulled it. She cried and the look she gave me was horrible beccause I had hurt her, albeit by accident. I would never intentionally cause that look.

I am quite astonished that my DP (born in the 60s, one of 6 children all born 2 years apart) was never smacked as a child, he can remember one incident where his chased him the length of the garden (DP had thrown a broomstick javelin stylee and it had hit his dad ) and raised his hand to hit him, but then put it down.

DP's mum and dad had grown up in houses of violence, and vowed never to do that to their kids.

I think possibly it is more likely to refuse to smack and see it as black and white if you have been harshly physically punished as a child, if you can only remember a few slaps you probably don't see it as being harmful.

It is still unacceptable though, imo.

I don't think smacking works though. I've only ever thought of doing it, or physically restrain DS, in extreme frustration or anger. Not after giving it thought and considering it and then smacking it thinking his behaviour will improve.

Although I think when my mum smacked me it prob did work, otherwise our house might have burnt down (i went through a phase of being facinated with fire when I was a child)!

ahhh you beat me to it noddy was just about to say that parents like the ones above in the restaurant obviously have no parenting abilities and use smacking as a last resort but have no routine in place so why would the children listen or understand.
if they are running around and suddenly get smacked out of nowhere what use is that?
it would be as effective as being suddenly told you were grounded or having a toy taken off you with no warning in place.

The fact you survived something does not mean it's a positive way to raise your own child.

Smacking is definitely abusive. If you did it to another adult they could press assault charges.

I was hit by my father as a child, usually because he was an angry bastard most of the time and took it out on me. I remember feeling frightened, not like I had learned a lesson on how to behave.

It is probably a pointless thread to be involved on - as I am not going to change my mind and start to see hitting as acceptable, and most of those who hit their children will continue the belief that it is acceptable.

I just look forward to the day when hitting children is made illegal.

Don't smack. But I have threatened to do it. I may well have done it too, had the behaviour not corrected.

I can understand there are circumstances where it may be needed. An unpopular view I know but youngest one at 11 is really pushing limits to extremes and normal consequences that have worked previously seem to be totally ineffectual. There are times when I have thought it may be worth trying but can't bring myself to, knowing in my heart it's wrong.

The people I know who use smacking (and, yes, I know that anecdotes aren't the same as data) all seem to be quite lazy parents though. They want quick fixes with their children and don't want to put hard work in.

For example, my meal-wrecking friend (see my last post) confided in me recently that she couldn't settle her children in the evening and wanted some advice about what she could do, as her evenings disolve into screaming and slapping. I talked her through my routine but she was horrified - what? clean their teeth? read to them? tuck them up? She just wants to airily wave to them as they wander off upstairs and then becomes frustrated and lashes out at them because they are children and they mess around.

I think talking and guiding children, plus modeling (DH's least favourite word) good behaviour gets much better results.

V true, Laura.

When my 2 were little - yes I did smack - maybe 2 or 3 times a year to get a quick sharp message across - one smack/hit/tap with a "stop" followed by an explanation and a cuddle - yes it is probably wrong. I also physically picked up my eldest and removed her from a shop mid-tantrum, so I guess more than one form of physical discipline has been used....

I have seen the results of other forms of discipline and they can be just as damaging -
stopping the child having a treat/dinner can lead to food issues,

taking away a toy - "I'm bigger than you, so can take your stuff away if I want" is surely a similar message to smacking

as is the "I'm bigger than you so I'm going to make you sit on a step/shut you in a room with no one else there"

I loathe the thought of any child being mentally upset and crying for a parent whilst unable to get comfort. (and have sat through 2 or 3 well meaning friends attempts at using this for discipline whilst screaming inside)

And as for the "I'm sooooooo disappointed in you" which you hear all the time in our middle class neighbourhood - don't get me started on the emotional blackmail that scars forever.....

Now mine are 9 and 10 (well from about 3 when they understood the proper meaning of "STOP it", i.e. do it NOW - it is dangerous, it will hurt someone, we don't behave like that )- I use "the look" and the countdown - 5 - FOUR - 3 -2............... never got to zero..... I now have 2 wonderfully well behaved young ladies who are polite, well mannered and apply themselves at school - yes we still have some verbal bickering at home, but hey ho.... they are sisters.

ByTheWay Having been a smacked child, I can assure you that having your toy taken away, or an activity curtailed or being sent out of the room is NOT the same as being slapped and the physical fear that hitting brings.

And a child who's behaviour is disappointing their parent ought to be reminded.

LauraS -I was also a smacked child - but in the way I used smacking - not thumped/slapped/viciously just a single smack by my mum - who I love dearly - -it was never done in an atmosphere of fear, just as a sharp reminder. My dad however used to be "disappointed" with me, "go to your room" etc and I remember the feelings of utter inadequacy much, much more tearfully than a smack and a cuddle.

Everyone has their own way - physical or verbal will both be taken to extremes by the sort of person who enjoys bullying children.

I don't agree with taking away toys either, I've never done anything like it. I have a 2 year old who is very challenging at the moment and there are times I feel like smacking her but that's my problem, not hers and I feel that way because I'm losing my temper which doesn't justify doing it!