to be fuming at sexist Christmas Presents?

[WomanlyWoman]

I attended my first PTA meeting the other night, during which I discovered that the pta have bought Christmas presents for every child in the school. Nice, right? Then I realised the presents were different according to gender, the older children get books, the younger ones such as my child, in reception, get crafty things from Yellow Moon. Great, except - the girls get flower presses, the boys get cars.

This has really p-ed me off bigtime. For one, my daughter likes cars, car was one of her first words, she adores Lightning McQueen and doesn't seem to realise that it's meant to be for boys. So what message does it give her about herself when she sees the boys getting cars while she gets a flower press? Admittedly she would probably like a flower press too, but that is not the point. What about nature loving boys? Why are these children being given the message that active dynamic machines are for boys and pretty, passive things like flowers are for girls? A nature theme for all of them or a transport theme for all of them would be fine by me, but this just seems so wrong.

I'm very shy by nature and I hardly know any of the other parents. The pta meeting itself was quite an ordeal for me, so I didn't speak up at the time. I thought it was pointless because the presents have already been bought. Why make myself unpopular, so soon, when it's already done and dusted.

Then I started thinking, it's only October, there may be time to send them back and order different ones if enough parents express an opinion similar to mine. Not sure how to go about it though. Opinions and advice appreciated.

I agree that the choice of presents encourages stereotyping. My girls would be very happy to receive either of those presents.

However, I think that the lessons of being grateful to receive anything, of being gracious to the giver of a present you may not like and of realising that some children do not get Christmas presents are far more important ones than the lesson that some people think boys should get certain toys and girls others.

Gender sterotyping is definitely an issue but, imo, it can't compare with the issue of our entitled, consumerist young generation. I think reinforcing the fomer is unfortunate but the latter inexcusable.

OP, YANBU. And I'm saddened that so many people are. Yes, it's only one present. But it's one of thousands of small messages that the children will face every day that boys are like this and girls are like this.

It's unnecessary, and a PTA should know better.

And the posts about the OP teaching her daughter to be grateful completely miss the point.

I can't understand what would be wrong with giving boys and girls something that is the same.

Why would this be an issue?

Why do we have to say that they have to have different things? This isn't, actually, about saying that girls have to have pink things and boys have to have blue things.

But for whatever reason, the OP's PTA have decided to give them different things.

Why?

YANBU OP, I'd be annoyed about this too. Now you are in the PTA maybe you can use your voice to influence the thinking behind present giving. I know loads of little boys who love flowers and couldn't be bothered with cars.

Exactly, BTP. In fact, buying according to different numbers of boys and girls would only make things more complicated.

Not all flowers are passive. Some of them trap insects on sticky pads. They suck them in and digest them slowly. Some of them poison creatures that eat them. Their pollen wreaks misery on hayfever sufferers. I think you are stereotyping flowers

I know loads of little boys who love flowers and couldn't be bothered with cars

Venus fly traps I can believe....as to other flowers and "loads" of boys, I'm far more

I base this view on the loads of boys I have known as mine grew up. I never met one flower child - car lovers, however....

YANBU

Generally, it's fine to teach kids that they're not always going to get presents they love and sometimes they should just be grateful, but we're talking about a school here.

Schools shouldn't be giving out the message (whether it's via a free gift or whatever) that boys/girls need different presents (and that's before you go into the fact that car's are an active present and can be used immediately etc).

Schools should just damn well know better than this.

I remember getting presents at somewhere I worked as an adult, where all the men were given nice, decent food hampers with loads of useful stuff in. All the women were given a 'pretty' hamper with half the amount of food in and a bar of soap. Yes, I was grateful for the 'free' gift, but it did rankle that it was assumed all the female staff would happy with the smaller but pinker hamper.

^PTAs are by nature insular and defined by their catchment area.
Someone comes along and challenges the status quo because they are concerned about the long-term ramifications of casual sexism.
That's bigoted?^

It can be if one is not prepared to accept some merit in the other side's arguments.

It is not an established fact that this PTA is insular, nor is the view that small boys and girls are the same a fact (in fact a lot of evidence is against it) so believing they are different and should be treated differently does not make one "sexist".

Now, the definition of a bigot is a person "obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs".

So it's not just the Bad Guys who can be the bigots.

whatmeworry when I was younger I used to look after lots of children. Whenever there was an option to go out and make daisy chains and go for nature walks, the little boys always wanted to go for that option, so did the girls. They loved being out in nature and picking flowers and feeding the ducks.

OK I totally see the logic here: the PTA volunteer their time and are therefore above accountability, besides, anyone who understands the problem with gender stereotyping is obviously a silly old precious, consumeristic, shallow PITA. Of course we're different from boys, we like pink and flowers and bees and clowds and trees and our pretty little heads simply can't hold a thought. Maths, well that's far too hard for me, understanding mechanics and how things work? Well that's a man thing, it's them that's interested in it [mechano, lego, mechanics sets] I love fashion [dolls] and cooking and babies, it's all I'm good for really. Drip. Drip. Drip.

On a practical note, don't think that reason or even offering to change the gifts yourself will have any effect (other than making you unpopular, unfortunately). Committees are bloody awful, and decisions are made on the basis of force of personality and personal alliances. So I'd just kill them with nice, bide my time and have a simple argument at the ready for next year - such as "surely it'll be easier to buy the same thing for all, how about X".

This year I'd just spin it positively and squish some flowers. Squish 'em hard. (fyi, you can speed up the process by carefully zapping 'em in the microwave, and do some science by talking about the stuff flowers are for. Take THAT, PTA.)

I think those who are saying that, "But boys and girls are different and we shouldn't have to pretend they aren't," are missing the point. The point being twofold: 1) there is still debate over how much of that difference (which, incidentally, is only when you compare them as groups and does not apply to all children) is nature and how much is nurture (and that therefore they may only be different because you've socialised them into believing they have to be, and there is DEFINITELY evidence all over the place of that socialisation happening) and 2) this being annoyed isn't about the kids who will be happy with their 'gender-appropriate' gift, but the kids who will be looking at what the other sex have got and thinking, "I would've liked that. I didn't get that because I'm a girl/boy. So it must be wrong for me to like that."

sorry, haven't time to read the whole thread, so apologies in advance if I am repeating what others have said. I'd be careful about what you say until you have been at school long enough to join the PTA and get involved in the decisions at the point at which they are made, and find out first hand how hard it is to keep everyone happy.... . Don't even think about suggesting stuff gets sent back. Just have a quiet word with the PTA and say "could my daughter have a car rather than a flower press" . . Until you have been part of a PTA trying to avoid every possible thing that would cause parents (who don't get involved) to fume..... then you have no right whatsoever to rant about it. Sorry, but that is the way it is. Get involved, help the organisers work out how to keep all the parents happy - (parents of 500 kids in the case of the primary school mine went to.... ) So... you say you don't want "sexist" toys; but I bet loads of girls would prefer a flower press to a car... some parents only want their children to have educational toys... others feel that after 5 days a week in school, want them to have fun presents... so, let's just give selection boxes NOOOOOOOOO they contain sugar...... get where I'm coming from?? Fully understand your concern, but having been a PTA member for what feels like a zillion years, I can only advise that you go and get involved, and help them understand how to keep EVERYONE happy...........(and within budget)

You know what? I've changed my mind on this. I agree with OP and BeerTricks and that lot.

I think I just owned up to being wrong!

Ace

"I think they are learning to be their gender"

Children should be who they want to be, no learning of what is appropriate for their gender. There is no need to learn that girls do this and boys do that.

I have skipped the whole thread because YANBU!!

It would have been easier to get them all the same thing and with much less possibility of pointlessly setting up stereotypes in children who are (hopefully) too young to have really noticed them yet.

I've skipped the whole thread too because it's just ridiculous. You can control what you give your own child, you do not have control over other people and neither should you. If it bothers you that much, refuse the gift. If I were a parent at the school I would not want YOU making decisions about what my child does and doesn't have.

Just refuse the gift, quietly and graciously - or take it and donate it.

YANBU. The point her isn't that the op is being ungrateful, but annoyed at the gender difference of the toys.

At that age it would be fairly easy to buy gender neutral gifts.

This thread seems to show up a lot of people think the boy/car girl/flower (etc) is perfectly normal way to make decisions re kids. I don't! With a smidgeon of thought gifts could have been given without falling so lazily along these obvious gender lines.

YANBU. It's gender stereotyping, telling boys they are not supposed to like flowers and girls that they are not supposed to like cars. Of course we should be grateful for gifts, but that doesn't mean we should be blind to the underlying message being sent here.

What's wrong with giving them all the same thing?

It would have been easier to get them all the same thing and with much less possibility of pointlessly setting up stereotypes

And what do you suggest that thing is then?