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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be fuming at sexist Christmas Presents?

475 replies

WomanlyWoman · 02/10/2011 15:40

I attended my first PTA meeting the other night, during which I discovered that the pta have bought Christmas presents for every child in the school. Nice, right? Then I realised the presents were different according to gender, the older children get books, the younger ones such as my child, in reception, get crafty things from Yellow Moon. Great, except - the girls get flower presses, the boys get cars.

This has really p-ed me off bigtime. For one, my daughter likes cars, car was one of her first words, she adores Lightning McQueen and doesn't seem to realise that it's meant to be for boys. So what message does it give her about herself when she sees the boys getting cars while she gets a flower press? Admittedly she would probably like a flower press too, but that is not the point. What about nature loving boys? Why are these children being given the message that active dynamic machines are for boys and pretty, passive things like flowers are for girls? A nature theme for all of them or a transport theme for all of them would be fine by me, but this just seems so wrong.

I'm very shy by nature and I hardly know any of the other parents. The pta meeting itself was quite an ordeal for me, so I didn't speak up at the time. I thought it was pointless because the presents have already been bought. Why make myself unpopular, so soon, when it's already done and dusted.

Then I started thinking, it's only October, there may be time to send them back and order different ones if enough parents express an opinion similar to mine. Not sure how to go about it though. Opinions and advice appreciated.

OP posts:

BeerTricksPotter · 04/10/2011 14:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KatieMiddleton · 04/10/2011 14:37

Roseflower I don't think gender neutral does harm. I do think insisting children play with toys they don't like to suit the parent's views on gender is unproductive or harmful. Whether it's actively giving the toys that go against the stereotype or perpetuate it.

As a case in point, my DS has lots of toys. They are mainly activity toys (cars, trains, sport stuff, anything with wheels) because that is the personal preference he has shown. He also has a doll and soft cuddly toys but he's not been as interested in them so we have not bought as many for him. Recently he's shown more interest in creative play and has taken to pushing a teddy in his doll's buggy and making the soft animals play together. I'm not going to buy him more dolls at the moment when he shows little interest in the one he has but neither am I taking the doll away because sometimes he plays with it.

So while my ideological preference is for gender neutral and similar numbers of traditionally masculine and feminine toys I am deferring to his preference. Because he is an individual. If his preference was for traditionally feminine toys he'd have more of those.

projectbabyweight · 04/10/2011 14:40

Baffles me how anyone could argue with that.

KatieMiddleton · 04/10/2011 14:40

I was addressing the poster just before you Spiderpig8 who asked a direct question. I just wasn't quick enough. I know you've been on the thread since the beginning.

And that is a cracking present idea!

Whatmeworry · 04/10/2011 14:47

Hmmmm I would suggest there is a fair amount of baggage from thousands of years of patriarchy

X-post absolutely! And agreed re too late this year, try again next year.

IMO sexism is rife, its just I think these sorts of little issues take eyes off the big balls (as it were) and give critics an opportunity to snipe. I sort of groan inwardly when I think of the Daily Fail headline "PTA decides to implement Gender Neutral Christmas" or somesuch, when we are trying to be taken seriously arguing the big issues eg for better childcare or pay etc

Roseflower · 04/10/2011 14:48

" I do think insisting children play with toys they don't like to suit the parent's views on gender is unproductive or harmful. "

Yes Kate but it can work both way's.... which is my point. No parent should be enforcing their child to only have gender neutral toys. You, as a parent, obviously do not... but there is a hint of that on this thread.

A child should have access to feminine, masculine and neutral toys and it is up to the child to state a preference and in the meantimne it is up to the parent to faciltie the abilty to find out which type of toys reflect who the child truly is.

However I do draw the line at dd having guns, that would never be allowed. Or Bratz dolls

projectbabyweight · 04/10/2011 14:51

Hope that hint isn't coming from me. FWIW I had a flower press and adored it.

Whatmeworry · 04/10/2011 14:51

Our school gave each child one of those snowstorm thingies that you shake and the glitter floats down-each with a picture of that child in.It was a lovely lovely present but I would imagine a lot of work and only do-able in a very small school

Brilliant - or get them all to make something to put in one (I don't think they are too hard to do). That's probably the way to go OP - suggest something so cool that it just makes sense.

Roseflower · 04/10/2011 14:59

Thats nice idea- yes maybe next year the children should all make a gift for someone else in class . How cute! It would be thoughtful, creative and meaningful and would appreiciate the work behind gifts.

It would get them to think about the individual and what they might like.

ElderberrySyrup · 04/10/2011 15:01

I've never heard of a parent letting their child only have gender neutral toys, I suspect it is a bit of a myth. Plenty of parents try to redress the balance by making the effort to get their child other-gender-stereotyped toys to make up for the masses they will be given that are their own gender-stereotyped.
What I do come across frequently is the parents who won't let their child have toys that are the 'wrong' sex for them - only about a fortnight ago in fact, when I was told dd's friend's dad wouldn't like it if I got him Sylvanians for his birthday even though that was what he wanted. (I got him a Sylvanian butler in the end.)

KatieMiddleton · 04/10/2011 15:01

I can't say I've seen anyone say that on the thread Rose but I have seen the accusation tossed about at posters (if that makes any sense!).

And i think you are spot on when you say "it is up to the parent to facilitate". It's not the place of the school/PTA or other body to lump children into groups based on sex or any other characteristic that disregards that child's actual preference.

projectbabyweight · 04/10/2011 15:04

Assuming the only-gender-neutral accusation is a myth, are we all in agreement? Wouldn't that be ace

minipie · 04/10/2011 15:22

"But on just one occasion there is nothing wrong with being given a typically feminine/masculine gift is there? To explore the childs full potential? What is so wrong with this occasion, ie this Christmas being one which allows for femine/ masculine gifts?"

So Roseflower how about, next Christmas, they give the girls cars and the boys flower presses - so that each has a variety of toys? Would that be ok? It would be ok in my book

Roseflower · 04/10/2011 15:27

Hmm Minipie that is contradicting what you have said in your earlier posts

Why is ok with you now to give each gender a different toy?

minipie · 04/10/2011 15:43

Actually you're right and I take it back. My thinking was that the message given now (that girls get one thing and boys another), would be cancelled out next year when they get given the other toy. But TBH I don't think the children would necessarily put two and two together in that way.

So, still say it's not ok, even if they get given the other toy next year - though obviously that would be better.

Roseflower · 04/10/2011 15:46

Well I say just give them all a £50 M&S voucher

That should keep everyone happy

Mmm M&S Christmas dinner....

C4ro · 04/10/2011 16:13

I think it's sad and a bit wrong too. Since the PTA will no doubt be hugely sensitive on all their effort I'd make only mild comments for now and be sure to next years choice does not go this way since you're in it now.

And why should we not let this sort of naffness pass unchallenged?;
jackyfleming.co.uk/cartoon.php?gall=&p=16
jackyfleming.co.uk/cartoon.php?gall=&p=33

Uppity · 04/10/2011 16:21

You know what strikes me, when feminists talk about big philosophical issues, women's history, sexuality, how to overthrow the patriarchy etc., we're told that change is impossible and can never happen and we're not living in the real world and the issues are too big and grand and overarching to tackle.

And then when we talk about the small stuff, like PTA's being too moronic to even consider the implications of re-inforcing stereotyped gender expectations, we're told to lighten up and stop sweating the small stuff.

I'm wondering what counts as middling...

KatieMiddleton · 04/10/2011 16:59

I can't blame anyone for not wanting to take on the PTA. I'd rather tackle the consequences of an unequal pay audit myself...

nooka · 04/10/2011 17:08

Well it's balanced over two year isn't it? I think the idea of 'feminine and masculine' toys is very bizarre. All very pink aisle blue aisle, and actively contributes to the current shoving of children into artificial stereotyped behaviour. It seems a real pity to me that there is this backward push right now, and it is somethign that should be actively combated.

I talked to my dd about his one, and she said that she thought that her school did it much better, as they have a secret Santa set up, where the children are encouraged to pass on a nice toy/book/small item to a nominated child in their class. She told me that she really enjoyed thinking about what her recipient might like, and appreciated the thought that had gone into her gift too. I also congratulated myself on successfully brainwashing her that the best bit about Christmas was the giving

Gender stereotyping is to me a big thing as it underpins so much of the big crap. 'Men are like this, women are like that' is behind a great deal of sexual discrimination (women can't possibly vote as their brains are too small/they are too emotional; women can't have professional jobs and a family because they couldn't possibly cope, women must do all the housework because 'men just don't see dirt', women are always available for sex/totally frigid etc etc etc).

Discussing discrimination isn't about 'playing a card'. That's a phrase generally used by those who think that it is an unfair advantage to be in the discriminated group (the equivalent of trumping) which is just so much crap I'm not even going there.

Chocobo · 04/10/2011 17:19

Hear Hear Nooka! :)

aliceliddell · 04/10/2011 18:26

uppity Oh, I should think the middling category would probably cover stuff we all take for granted, like endemic sexual violence. You did realise boys are born more aggressive than girls?

IShouldHaveBeenAPairOfClaws · 04/10/2011 18:41

I haven't read all the posts I'm afraid but I did want to come on and say that a flower press is a truly awful present. I had no idea that any children had played with them since about the 80s. However, I probably wouldn't bother to say anything, and I do agree that complaining about presents is a bit off.

Insomnia11 · 04/10/2011 18:46

What I'd have been saying at the meeting is that buying the entire school presents was a bit of a waste of funds anyway, unless it's in a deprived area or something, most kids get tons of presents.

ElderberrySyrup · 04/10/2011 18:52

LOL, at my school they always seem to be buying the kids chocolate.
It is a very happy school....

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