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Original poster

to be fuming at sexist Christmas Presents?

475 replies

WomanlyWoman · 02/10/2011 15:40

I attended my first PTA meeting the other night, during which I discovered that the pta have bought Christmas presents for every child in the school. Nice, right? Then I realised the presents were different according to gender, the older children get books, the younger ones such as my child, in reception, get crafty things from Yellow Moon. Great, except - the girls get flower presses, the boys get cars.

This has really p-ed me off bigtime. For one, my daughter likes cars, car was one of her first words, she adores Lightning McQueen and doesn't seem to realise that it's meant to be for boys. So what message does it give her about herself when she sees the boys getting cars while she gets a flower press? Admittedly she would probably like a flower press too, but that is not the point. What about nature loving boys? Why are these children being given the message that active dynamic machines are for boys and pretty, passive things like flowers are for girls? A nature theme for all of them or a transport theme for all of them would be fine by me, but this just seems so wrong.

I'm very shy by nature and I hardly know any of the other parents. The pta meeting itself was quite an ordeal for me, so I didn't speak up at the time. I thought it was pointless because the presents have already been bought. Why make myself unpopular, so soon, when it's already done and dusted.

Then I started thinking, it's only October, there may be time to send them back and order different ones if enough parents express an opinion similar to mine. Not sure how to go about it though. Opinions and advice appreciated.

OP posts:
projectbabyweight · 04/10/2011 12:59

Yeah, they might be missing out on the deep satisfaction of achieving their life's true calling.

projectbabyweight · 04/10/2011 13:03

Why not throw in some lipstick as well? Because they're worth it too.

Chocobo · 04/10/2011 13:06

Hi Whatmeworry - do you not think that the way women have been treated given the last 300 years (and more) of world history causes some emotional baggage?

The only difference I see between using racial or gender stereotypes is that one is not socially acceptable and one is. After all you can no more help the sex in which you are born as you can your race.

projectbabyweight · 04/10/2011 13:18

Even if boys and girls brains are significantly different, even then (and it's not 100% clear afaik), would it not a good idea to keep their horizons as broad as possible?

Encouraging it, e.g. with stereotyped toys, would just limit them further.

Roseflower · 04/10/2011 13:32

^"would it not a good idea to keep their horizons as broad as possible?

Encouraging it, e.g. with stereotyped toys, would just limit them further."^

Yes... but surely not letting them have a toy/craft object just because it ticks the "sterotype box" is just as limiting....

minipie · 04/10/2011 13:37

I don't think anyone is saying that girls shouldn't be allowed flower presses, Roseflower. Or that boys shouldn't be allowed cars. But that neither should be given those objects just because they are a girl/boy.

KatieMiddleton · 04/10/2011 13:44

Hmmmm I would suggest there is a fair amount of baggage from thousands of years of patriarchy Grin

Whatme I can't agree with your points about gender stereotyping being more socially acceptable than racial stereotyping (I mean i know what the status quo is and I can see from life and this thread that one is seen as more important than other) but the way things are and the way they should be are not always the same thing - and I am conscious i am labouring that point. But really, is it ever right to discriminate based on an innate characteristic when even the law says we shouldn't? Particularly when it is a struggle to get that sort of legislation through in the first place? I just can't square that in my mind - although I do appreciate the debate.

We do have some common ground on this issue though. I agree that what's done is done so waiting until next year seems sensible if the purchasing has already been made.

Roseflower · 04/10/2011 13:44

But on just one occasion there is nothing wrong with being given a typically feminine/masculine gift is there? To explore the childs full potential? What is so wrong with this occasion, ie this Christmas being one which allows for femine/ masculine gifts?

BeerTricksPotter · 04/10/2011 13:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KatieMiddleton · 04/10/2011 13:59

Well Roseflower as you've asked...

  • Because it is the thin end of the wedge. Every little instance that slips through is a validation that it is acceptable practice.

  • Because there is no evidence that differentiating based on sex does any good for 5 year olds. In fact there is evidence it does harm by limiting horizons and potential. The evidence is referenced many times in this thread.

  • Because it takes more effort to differentiate but there no positive benefits.

  • Because children who are more comfortable in non-stereotypical gender roles are not made to feel odd or strange and because those who are more comfortable in stereotypical gender roles are not made to feel odd or strange either.

  • Because schools have a legal obligation not to offer different benefits based on sex.

  • Because we are talking about a single cohort of children, not individuals so applying understanding of individual preferences or splitting into groups some are automatically discriminated against.

  • Because individual preferences are already adequately met by parents and friends of each specific child.

KatieMiddleton · 04/10/2011 14:00

Actually what Beer said. She said it better than me Smile

Whatmeworry · 04/10/2011 14:02

Hi Whatmeworry - do you not think that the way women have been treated given the last 300 years (and more) of world history causes some emotional baggage?

Yes, IMO women have had 3,000+ years of discrimination, its just that racism has the bigger emotional baggage today what with global slavery, gassing jews, balkan and other ethnic cleansings, apartheid states etc etc.

Playing that card is generally an attempt to obfuscate the existing discussion, and move it from debate about X to a debate where "if you believe X you are a racist" precisely because "if you believe X therefore you are a sexist" has much much less emotional derailing potential

And really, to play a racist card in (or Nazi card as the OP did) when one is debating whether a PTA's small Xmas present should be per per sex or one for all is IMO going totally OTT.

Roseflower · 04/10/2011 14:04

Well to me a neutral gift or something 'gendered' would be ok. The important thing to me is that the children are being chances to explore their potential to the full and that does mean my daughter should get feminine gifts too in her life.

Maybe it is best the PTA just let children pick for themselves as individuals on the day?

I can understand if someone said their family/friends kept giving their older dc's presents totally unsuitable for their own, tailored interests because they didnt approve girls should like science kits etc as they are specifcially buying for that child yet trying to control them through dissaproval.

But the PTA obvioulsy cannot tailor gifts so I think this is just a chance to explore something new as a potential interest iyswim?

BeerTricksPotter · 04/10/2011 14:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Roseflower · 04/10/2011 14:07

But kate my dd has never had a flower press. Its just a chance to see if this is an interest for her in my own opinion if this is what she is given.

KatieMiddleton · 04/10/2011 14:11

But the PTA obvioulsy cannot tailor gifts

I think that's a really good point Roseflower but I reach a different conclusion. They can't tailor so they should give everyone the same. It just avoids the issue. Trying to tailor by sex and using gender stereotyping to achieve this causes problems.

KatieMiddleton · 04/10/2011 14:12

She may well not have but neither have the boys. Why offer the opportunity just to the girls? Why not give them all a flower press and make it equal?

Roseflower · 04/10/2011 14:17

I cannot argue with that.Then maybe the PTA should not wrap them and let them choose? Or is this just asking for anarchy?!

I suppose my concern is I do want anyone to say their child is not allowed a gift if it happens not to be gender neutral... that is just as limiting....

YummyHoney · 04/10/2011 14:18

Why on earth are the PTA spending money on crap?

minimisschief · 04/10/2011 14:18

I still do not get why people on here get outraged over the male/female toy stereo types

it is the way it is. if your child likes other things then that is just fine and dandy aswell.

why does it grate on some of you people that these stereo types exist?

spiderpig8 · 04/10/2011 14:19

It just makes me so sad that a group of parents giving their own time,energy trying to do something nice for the children come up against know-it-all newbies like the OP hell-bent on sucking the joy out of everything Sad

KatieMiddleton · 04/10/2011 14:21

Ok I never say this normally but read the thread. Or even just the last 20 posts if you want to know why.

spiderpig8 · 04/10/2011 14:22

Our school gave each child one of those snowstorm thingies that you shake and the glitter floats down-each with a picture of that child in.It was a lovely lovely present but I would imagine a lot of work and only do-able in a very small school

spiderpig8 · 04/10/2011 14:23

I have read it all thankyou Ms middleton and my opinion is unchanged.

BeerTricksPotter · 04/10/2011 14:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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