WARNING LONG!! AIBU to be really fucked off with my neighbours and not know what is the right thing to do?

[littlemisssarcastic]

My 3yr old DD is a headbanger. This has been going on since she was 9 months old. I have seen my health visitor and my GP numerous times, yet they wouldn't refer DD to a paediatric consultant until she was 3, apparently the majority of DC who do headbang grow out of it by their 3rd birthday, and this is why they don't refer until after the 3rd birthday. I was advised to ignore the headbanging as much as possible, since health visitor and GP both agreed DD was probably doing it to get my attention or get something she wants. The HV and GP explained to me that although it looks violent, DD is not harming herself.

Unfortunately, I cannot ignore the behaviour because, apart from the dreadful noise, the neighbours bang very long and very loudly on the adjoining wall if they hear any noises including banging going on in my house. They bang so hard, my walls and floor vibrate.

I have spoken to the neighbour and explained that DD is headbanging, that I am very sorry and that I am doing everything I can to stop it happening. I explained that DD has seen GP's and HV but they wont refer her on until she is 3. Neighbour agreed there wasn't much more I can do. (This was a while ago.)

Instead of ignoring, I quietly remove DD from wherever she is banging, and put her on a bean bag or I try to distract her.(Told neighbour this too) DD very quickly goes back to banging again, so I can be picking her up and removing her up to 60 times a day.

The neighbours have continued banging every time they hear DD banging. DD doesn't bang for more than a few seconds before I have removed her from wherever she is banging, so it is those few seconds of banging that makes neighbours bang back for a good 30 seconds. Neighbours have banged so long and so loud that DD has wet herself because she was so frightened. The main culprits who are banging apart from my DD are the 2 sons living next door, one is 20 and the other is 17. The mother of these men next door has told me that she has had to restrain her eldest from coming to my house to have a go at me over the banging.

When DD was 3, I went back to my health visitor, who referred DD to a community paediatrician. Community paediatrician has told me to continue distracting, removing, and not making a fuss. I have explained to community paediatrician that I cannot ignore because of the trouble it causes with my neighbours, so I have to continue with the distracting/removing. Community paediatrician reassured me that DD will grow out of it, although she doesn't know when.

DD only ever bangs during the daytime, she sleeps all night. I know that is no consolation for the neighbours and I do understand why they are annoyed, but I do not know what to do next.

I feel it is all a little unfair tbh. Next door bang their front door shut (no it is not stiff) every night, as an example..last night they banged their front door shut between 8-11pm at least 30 times. They have also been drilling every night this week after DD has gone to bed. (After 8 pm). DD is a light sleeper, and I think this is inconsiderate, but I don't start hammering on the walls, I just grit my teeth and ignore.

I have even kept quiet while the eldest DC next door was honking his car horn long and loud outside the house at 11.20 pm the other week.

I am just getting really fucked off with the audacity of them to hammer on the walls when they could knock at my door and discuss politely, instead of trying to intimidate or frighten my DD and I, as well as continuing to make all the noise they do without a single thought for us. (Shouldn't both neighbours try to consider the others, instead of one doing as they please and the other running their lives around what will or will not piss their neighbours off?) My eldest DC wouldn't dream of hammering on anyone's wall. I have known the men that live next door since they were born, yet not always lived next door to them, and I feel like I am being bullied by them. My life seems to revolve around keeping the neighbours happy, yet they have no consideration at all.

So AIBU to want to go round their and have a rant at them and ask them wtf they want me to do to stop them banging on my bloody walls, even though I am not comfortable with appeasing bullies?

as others have said contact EH they can come out and see your lo in action,and they can act to stop the neighbours from banging,trust me i have pita neighbours that have reported me and i had to have a vist from housing officer & EH and they said i couldnt do anymore as i had carpet on stairs etc i make sure kids dont run up the stairs(this was main complaint) there is 6 of us in the house,no downstairs loo unlike next door so yes we do go up & down often!ffs please contact them,you dont have to live like this xxxx

Vile neighbours, this is harrasment and you need to complain.
Your dd isn't doing it on purpose, but they are!

By the way, I'm not convinced repeated headbanging is all that harmless.

Mumblingragdoll I completely understand what you are saying. 3 year olds so have alot of energy.
DD goes to nursery 2.5 days a week, playgroup one morning a week, regular trips to the park, goes to see her friends regularly and sees family regularly too. She also has a large garden to play in with slide/swing/climbing frame and sand. She loves getting out and about, so we try to get out of the house at least once a day, sometimes more.
She does not headbang at nursery/playgroup/friends houses/family houses/or when out. Only when she is indoors. Usually when she is tired/upset/bored or any other negative emotion she is feeling. I try to keep her busy but for the times that I can't do the things she wants to do immediately, she will headbang.

shine I am apparently waiting for my useless HV to come and assess DD again and monitor her for a whole morning/afternoon in my house to verify that DD headbangs whilst angry/sad/upset/bored etc. I tried to explain that DD doesn't headbang while other people are there (apart from family) because there is too much going on but community paediatrician thinks this is the next step...working out why DD does it and then what can be done to prevent her from doing it. (Feel like banging my own head against a brick wall) DD bangs her head out of a habit she has formed now when she is feeling tired/bored/upset/angry etc. I cannot see how I can prevent DD feeling those things.

Birds I wonder if neighbour will be more pissed off that I have involved HA than if I went round.

You need to talk to the housing association, explain what has been happening and see if they will talk to neighbours on your behalf. Do you have a letter from the paediatrician? Show to housing association.

Don't start a war, it will just give them an excuse to behave badly. You must remain reasonable at all times. Remeber they could make your life even worst - our neighbour leaves his radio on all night - we have had to sleep on the floor in our front room. This is because he feels our three children are too noisy (they are at school/nursery most of the day)

Norman I don't have a letter from the paediatrician, no. It is all on DD's medical records though. I am waiting for a call back from my housing officer because I want a long term resolution to this problem.
I'm sorry to hear of your neighbour problems. Sounds awful. I have had appalling neighbours before and in comparison, my neighbours now are not all that bad I suppose, or rather they wouldn't be if it weren't for the two arrogant men living next door.
My neighbour has also had neighbour problems before...she had her locks glued up by her neighbours before when she was living in a 2nd floor flat and was subsequently moved.

I don't think I am a bad neighbour at all. I try to consider my neighbour all of the time. I will knock if I am planning a BBQ (neighbour never does) I don't honk my horn after 6pm, I try to keep my garden tidy, front and back, and even used to trim her hedges out the front. I don't do it anymore though because I got sick of her screaming that I hadn't trimmed her side of the tree.

OK, newbie poster here, so apologies if I step in it...

1. The more important thing here is the headbanging, no? You've waited YEARS and it's still not being addressed. I think a degree of banging heads of your own is called for here. You know when the HV comes round your DD won't 'perform' so don't hang your hopes on that; nothing will change. Maybe keep a diary for a week of every single time DD does it (and while you're at it, include what the neighbours' own noisy response is so you can use that for point #2). Then make a double appt (so you're not rushed) at your GPs to discuss it and demand action (without doing down HVs, this is a specialist issue). You need a referral, now, and if the GP won't do it, stand up for yourself and request a second opinion. Have you researched it online? Presume so...are there any specialists who could offer advice? Might be useful if you could provide your GP with some names of local experts you'd like to see your DD? Whatever you do, you MUST tell them that the 'wait and see' approach has been going on far too long and you feel totally unsupported and are worried, with reason, that your DD's physical and mental wellbeing (no to mention your own) is being affected by this professional laissez faire approach.

1. I think letters through the door and an unprepared-for visit from the HA/Enviro Health may well lead to an explosion with next door...after you've compiled your weekly diary, I would invite her next doors round for a cuppa, explain the steps you're taking with DD, and show her the diary (so she can see how end of tether you are with both your DD's behaviour and the medical brick wall, but also her sons' behaviour). If, and only if, things don't get better after a week, go round again and say you're taking this up with the HA and EH, as it's bullying.

Does that make any sort of sense?

Wineandpizza The 2 lads are indoors when the eldest lad (who works for neighbours b/f) has a day off, and the other lad (17) is at college, but for some strange reason is home all day today. Maybe he has finished college and hasn't got a job yet?? It always seems as if one or the other of them are indoors at any time.

ddubs I will contact EH then, and see what they say. Shall I wait for HA to call back first or do they work in conjunction with each other?

hells1908 That is very helpful. I shall keep a diary. I can't see neighbour coming round for a cuppa, she thinks I am a disgusting human being (not sure why, she wont tell anyone) and my house is a shithole . Neighbour spends 4 hrs a day cleaning and her 17 yr old has OCD. I will try though.

If she's banging her head on the dividing wall hard enough for them to hear, isn't she hurting herself quite badly? Could you not cover or pad the wall somehow?

wellwisher DD doesn't bang her head on the dividing wall, not sure why she doesn't. DD bangs on the bottom stair, or the walls on the other side of the neighbours (the wall to the outside rather than the neighbours IYSWIM). I do think the headbanging is hard, but I also think the sound proofing must be bad, because when DD bounced up and down in the bath (other side of the house to neighbours) the neighbours banged then too.
DD has a permanent red mark on her forehead, but apparently she will grow out of doing it. She appears to be okay, regardless of the banging, but it is extremely annoying, I can see why the neighbours are annoyed. I have been assured that she is not harming herself, but that's debatable imo. Mind you, seems very little the health professionals can do, so they prefer the ignore and wait and see method.
If I cover the walls where she bangs, she will find somewhere else to do it..it's almost like an obsession tbh.

Littlemiss. :(

DD1 was a headbanger. She did grow out of it, but not until she was 4ish. I had the same problem with the neighbours, not as severe, I was never threatened. But they constantly complained about it, and also thought we were having rampant sex chance would have been a fine thing .

All you can really do is pad the areas she's banging on. Oh, and the paediatrician I saw said the same, that it's not harming her and she will grow out of it. She's a fine, healthy and very smart 18 year old now. He said it was her equivalent of counting sheep.

ScarahStratton A fellow parent of a headbanger!! Do you have any idea how relieved I am to read your post???

GP/HV and Community Paediatrician told me it's not uncommon, apparently 1 in 20 DC do it, most for a short period of time, then outgrow it. I have never come across anyone before who's DC has headbanged after the age of 3 and for such a long time, so thank you.

I try to pad the areas that she headbangs but she will just go elsewhere to do it. She does it when she is tired, so it may be my DD's equivalent to counting sheep too.
My mum says to me 'I wonder how much brighter DD would be if she didn't headbang..I'm sure it's giving her brain damage'

I have read up lots on it, but wherever I look, I get the same advice....she will grow out of it...first I was told she would grow out of it by the time she reached her 3rd birthday...now community paediatrician says she will grow out of it by the time she goes to school.

What did your neighbours say to you Scarah and how did you respond?

Another vote for HA and EH. I had probs with neighbours playing RIDICULOUSLY loud music day and night. I went round, told them to shut up, reported to HA they rented off, and have not heard a PEEP in a year :o

HA's do take nuisance very seriously. Look up your tenancy agreement and quote the relevant bit at them. They HAVE to take your complaint seriously.

Good luck!

They are right, in all likelihood she will grow out of it. She sounds just like DD, she could headbang in her cot for what seemed like hours. It's not uncommon, it's just not spoken about much for some reason.

Next time you can tell your mum you know someone who's DD headbanged as much and her DD is doing 5 A levels at a top Grammar school. Didn't give her brain damage.

Littlemiss your situation sounds awful, I was a headbanger (in fact I still do sometimes) and still got a PhD in physics last year. Ignore your mother

I would rip your neighbours a new arsehole.

What Viva said.

call both and let HA know you have contacted EH too,keep a recored of every time they bang or do diy etc as HA will ask you to do this.

I just told them I'd done all I could to muffle it and I couldn't do any more.

You can go to the councils environment office and complain. They will write to the neighbours first and if that doesn't work they will give you sound monitoring equipment so every time they bang, or honk their horns or whatever you press this little red button and it records it.
If the EO agrees (with technical digital info) that the noise is unacceptable they will write to the neighbours again and tell them quite clearly that they need to keep the noise down to prevent further action.
it can go on from there (offer of mediation, court) but that normally does the trick.
And they don't have a leg to stand on if they counteract with the noise your child makes as children can make lots of noise legally!

You might not want to go down this road but at least you know you're in a stronger position if it continues.

Boastingbystealth It's good to hear that HA's do take it seriously. My concern is that the neighbour are going to say they are only doing the same as my DD is doing, but I will still get in touch with them. I know it would probably piss me off if it was my neighbour's DC headbanging (neighbour doesn't have any young DC btw) but I just wouldn't handle it the way they are doing.
I am definitely going to contact EH though and see what they think of it. My neighbours try to bully so many other neighbours, often not openly, but you hear about it IYGWIM. They don't go screaming in the street very often (have only screamed at me once over the back garden fence because I didn't trim her tree branches) but they pick on particular neighbours if those neighbours don't live the way my neighbours think they should.

Scarah I will mention that to my mum if she says that again. DD is coming along fine in every other way, so I am desperately hoping she will grow out of it. I wont even put her in her own room in case she wakes in the night and starts headbanging even for a few seconds.

PenguinArmy Thank you. I have been abit more concerned since my mother said that, that DD is damaging herself, you have put my mind at rest abit more. Thanks.

Viva Your post made me laugh. I have got so worked up before at my neighbour that I have let rip at her, she has driven off or run inside, then I calm down and think 'Oh shit..what have I done?' I don't want to answer the door or speak to her then, but when I have done, she is apologetic and says she doesn't want to fall out. My main problem is her two lads. Even if I say so myself, they are arrogant conceited selfish twats for men who cheat on their girlfriends and laugh about it, have no respect for anyone, and physically fight as much as they did when they were toddlers. The only difference between them and any other twatty men I have known is just how much of a clean freak they both are.
I have often heard their mother screaming at them. Yet she looks down her nose at everyone. (Many people have said this about her)

She is allowed to make noise though..I am not...by order of the neighbours.

ah but dd is a child they are not!housing and EH wont do much about a child making noise,its what they do! they are adults and know better!please DONT NOT take the blame for this!its during the day,they cannot do much about it,can i ask what kind of flooring you have?

Most of that post was irrelevant btw. I know it is none of my business what her sons get up to if it doesn't involve or affect me, was just trying to give you a rounder picture of what they are like.

unpa1dcar3r You know the equipment EH provide you with to record the noise, how sensitive is it? I ask because if I have been on the phone when they have been banging, indeed even when DD is banging, the person on the other end of the phone cannot hear it.

Also, can the equipment be left on for extended periods of time if I am quiet whilst it is on, because the front door banging by neighbours happens every night..but is intermittent, so by the time I press the red button, that particular noise will be over IYSWIM.

ddubsgirl I have carpet hallway/stairs/landing and bedrooms. Bathroom is lino I think, and did have carpet downstairs until a few months ago, but have laminate on underlay now. They bang as much then as they have always done tbh.
The problem seems to be that DD bangs on the stairs (carpeted) or the walls.

Yes i do see what you mean little Miss. The equipment is very sensitive and is all digital, They must have something which deals with intermittent noise I would imagine.
Mine was the neighbours bloody dog barking all night and his cockerels screeching at 3am onwards and all day a few feet away from youngests window (he doesn't sleep much anyway)
But the equipment was put in both his room first and then mine and it picked up everything (I was dreading the then H trumping!!)
The result was that the noise was way above acceptable levels- but remember this was a cockerel crowing, very noisy anyway but it went through the roof on the recording so I would imagine it would pick up bangings and honkings too- just see if they have some sort of delayed timer machine.