to be totally fucked off with the antisahm comments on here?

[slackers]

Wtaf are you only a good role model to your DC if you are in paid employment?
Why does someone only be valid in society if they earn?
Why should I work only to pay someone else do a job to look after my DC? wtaf is the logic in that?
ffs

So are you going to come back with oh no little johnnies nursery worker absolutely loves him?-rahter than do it for minimum wage she would probably do it for free as she just loves the ickle wickle babies so much?. [hmmm]nope-didnt think so. Nurseries are businesses-there to make money out of your kids.

I am not saying that nurseries are evil or that parents who put their kids in them are bad parents. I simply dont believe they are beneficial to very young babies.

Re the debate over time-my dcs go to bed at 7/8pm-so if they were in nursery until 6pm I would have 2 hours with them max as compared to the nursery spending 10 hours with them?. I think that adds up to the majority of the day no?

No, I went out for coffees and occasionally got pissed with my other unemployed mates!!.

Each of my child was different and I've had far too many to remember clearly!!

But it's still a stupid debate to have.

Every sentence can be a slight.

EG. Once I had my children I just couldn't think of going back to work and leaving them (this is how I felt).

Translate to: I love my children far more than you because you happily left yours.
I found staying at home so boring, I needed brain food.
TRanslate to: If you stay home you must be really thick.

Joking about coffee and mates, I really don't have any friends!!

Little johnnies childminder absolutely does love him. His first keyworker at nursery did too - after she left things went downhill so we re-assessed the best way foward and found the CM instead.

You said time pink, not waking time, and as I said 50 hours is nowhere near the majority of a baby's time.

Agree georgiemama. We never used a nursery for childcare and only had nanny for around four hours a day, but my dd was awake for a lot more of the time than she was asleep! And parenting most definitely continued all through the night!!!

Just to clarify-I do believe kids have to be tied to parents apron strings. My youngest has just started playgroup 2 mornings a week-more time for coffee with friends for me. He loves it,socialises with others and gets them ready for nursery.

Would I have put him in a nursery at 3 months old?-no because I dont believe it would have done him any good whatsoever. And to the poster who said oh well not many babies go at that age-the 2 nurseries at the end of my road both take babies from 3 months and they permanently have a waiting list

Why does it bother you so much pink! We have already agreed that very very few parents use a nursery 'for 50 hours a week. Very few. Most parents working those hours tend to use different forms of childcare.
So why don't we just assume that for that tiny proportion of parents who do use a nursery for small babies for long periods of time, that its the BEST option for those parents at that particular moment of their lives?

You know? Like you make decisions which you feel are 'right for your family? Why can't you treat other parents with the same respect for their decision making as 'you expect to be treated with?

pink4ever Sun 25-Sep-11 11:28:17
iliketherain-I agree with you with regards to very young babies being with someone other than a parent mon-fri 8-6. How anyone can say that it is good for a few months old baby to be away from their main carer and in the hands of paid strangers for the majority of their time is beyond me?.

Blimey, there are some posters who post here who say that they're SAHM and I feel sorry for their children, thinking that those children would be better off with somebody else for as many minutes of the day as possible. I doubt those posters see it that way though, they're so busy spouting.

pink4ever... how can you not see that you're being extremely judgemental and liable to cause offence? You could have said your first sentence and stopped there... but no, not content without a 'How anyone can say..., which scoops up EVERYBODY who is not a SAHM.

You're not the only one, I haven't read through much of the tripe.

I must be the spawn of satan, I am a SAHM, one school age DC and I still put youngest DC into Creche 2 days a week

Just putting it out there...

georgiemama-loves him? nope sorry not buying it. Cares for him?_of course very hard not to find little kids endearing-even the most trying ones. You are her client of course she has to convince you that she has his best interests at heart-its in the interest of her business to do so.

Again-I am not against nurseries/cm per se-just dont agree that they are good for very young babies. Repeat ad naseum.

Pink4ever, yes, dd did genuinely have a loving, caring relationship with her nanny. We moved away around two and a half years ago, so the business relationship ended long ago, but that hasn't stopped the nanny travelling 300 miles with her family to visit us each year, and opening up her home for us to go and stay with her when we go the other way. Sending lovely little letters and cards, not just at birthdays etc but all through the year. Chatting regularly to dd on skype. Far from a paid stranger, this is a special relationship for life.

Well, I don't consider myself 'just a number' in the workplace and I think it is sad that a woman's self esteem is so low to think that is all she could ever be. I have unique skills and knowledge that enable the organisation I work for to grow and develop in challenging economic times and if I were to leave it would impact negatively (perhaps why I got a payrise after I was headhunted for another job )

I also do a bit of freelance - again because I am confident I have marketable skills, I am not just a mindless 'number'. Maybe if you have been out of the workplace for a long time, you have forgotten that work can bring its own reward and satisfactions, beyond the pay (important motivator though that is )

I never get the SAHM/WOHM mum divide, I know very few women who never work at some point in their children's lives (apart from my MIL and she is a nasty mad bag, so I don't count her).

I don't really care if you are buying it or not. Our childminder is an exceptionally kind and loving person, unable to have biological children of her own, she has a son through adoption and became a CM as a way of being with children as she simply adores them. And she adores my son.

sover-do you mean what age I believe children should be in full time nursery? imo not under a year-I will say it again I dont believe it is benefial for children under that age to be away from parents/carers for the majority-waking hours-of their time.

This does not mean I think nurseries are bad or not benefial to older children in other ways.

To the poster who talked about nurseries hardly having any small babies-if there wasnt a demand they wouldnt do it. PLus in the current economic climate more parents are going to feel the pressure to return to work asap for fear of not having a job to return to.

Oh, just to add, we put dd into nursery a few hours per week after moving house - even though DH was a SAHD at the time - because we felt it would help her make friends locally. She was only there for around 6 months for a few hours per week, prior to starting school. We are still in touch with her key worker over 2 years later, and she loves to see how dd is getting on.

I dont have a problem with wohm-I understand some women need to work,some want to work,some dont enhoy being a sahm-horses for courses. I just dont believe that nurseries are the best place for very small babies. imo.

'I think xenias point about women always working pre second world war is actually rather hilarious. She cites it as the norm. Yes it was. But women were also owned, couldnt divorce easily, no contraception.
Hardly a working mums feminist paradise.' I agree with this point Riven.

And by saying we used to do something so it's fine now, that could apply to lots of very bad things. With the invention of labour saving devices, isn't it a good thing that people can 'work' less? Spend more time with the kids and home? (if they can/want?)

Iliketherain has made some good points, not saying I agree with them all but some were reasonable points.

It's only a very few parents I know leave their babies in nurseries 8-6 mon-Fri (I did in myself for a short time-it was so different to having a relative to do the care-I had that for a while too) and I do sometimes wonder if they will regret it/feel they are missing out/have long term effects. But it doesn't bother me really as it is THEM and their choice. I know a couple of people who work in nurseries who have said they feel sorry for the little babies in all day long all week. There is even a 24 hr nursery where you can leave your kid all weekend! A bus drives round at the crack of dawn with sad looking kids en route to said nursery. I can see it may be fun for a 3+ yr old (even 2 in some cases) but for a tiny baby I am not sure. If it was me again i would look for a good childminder (I know of 3 who are very good-the other load of them are dreadful-leave the kids outside shops etc).

Heres a thought.... Maybe, just maybe there are some adults out there who were at nursery full time from a young age, who are happy, successful, well educated and well adjusted. After all, nurseries have been around a while now and many people who went to them are now adults.

And maybe, just maybe, there are some adult children of mums who didn't work who haven't done well at school, and aren't as happy or well adjusted or successful!

See, its all a lot more complex than working/ nonworking/ nursery/ childminder/ velcroed to mum 24/7.....

I can see that maybe if you're insecure with other people doing things differently 'you have to convince yourself that somehow you'll get 'payback' from your decision through your children.

It's a dangerous assumption to make. Love your children, nurture them, enjoy their company and either work or don't work- but don't assume that if your children are 'better' either way.

I repeat- if you ask me in real life whether I feel being a working mum has Been good, (and I have been asked a couple of times) I will reply, love my career, like the salary and pension, enjoy the stimulation and the social side. I will NOT try to tell you it has made my children any 'better' (or any worse). So, if you choose not to work, please don't try to tell me your way is better for everyone else.

"Go into a reception class and try and divide the kids between those with SAHM and those with a working mum. You couldn't do it."

I agree with this entirely.