to be totally fucked off with the antisahm comments on here?

[slackers]

Wtaf are you only a good role model to your DC if you are in paid employment?
Why does someone only be valid in society if they earn?
Why should I work only to pay someone else do a job to look after my DC? wtaf is the logic in that?
ffs

If you look at the actual facts you'll no doubt find a greater correlation between unemployed parents and social breakdown. But hey, why let facts get in the way when you just want to have a personal rant about people with careers!

I thought the Terrible Breakdown Of Society was because fathers weren't around that much, male role models, clip round the ear, green fields when I were a lad, etc etc etc?

BTW plenty of women do find themselves thinking at some point 'oh dear wish I'd worked a bit more'. Which is one reason why the rise in pension age is hitting women so badly.

I chose not to use full time nursery for my son when he was little because I didn;t think it would suit him however I have a friend who's son has been n full time day nursery from about 6 months. Very nice boy doing well at school. My son went to a lovely local childminder and partly to my mum, other friends have worked at home without using child care and have stayed at hom elooking after their children.

And d'you know, you really can;t pick out which is which. They are all more a function of their personality and they paretns parenting style than the kind of child are they had pre-school.

If I were in any danger of sweeping generalisations about what it good for all children, experience has taught me that it just isn't valid.

terrible breakdown in society is because govt are making teachers parents by proxy and diluting the quality of education as a result.

And some people make themselves into martyrs for their children, and their kids then have to cope with the fallout from this. As the daughter of a depressed and unfulfilled SAHM who gave up a great career for her kids, I feel that my teenage years would have been much happier if she had worked. It still affects our relationship even now, and I wish that my mum had recognised then what she realises now - that thinking about her own happiness would have increased the happiness of the whole family.

I am not jealous or guilty. Why would I be? I have my own career and I am financially secure. My dd sees her mum leading her own life as well as having a family. We can afford for dd to have all of the opportunities that we want her to have. She eats healthy, home-cooked food. She is very close to both me and her dad, and has a close relationship with grandparents too. Her teacher last year described her as having "exceptional emotional intelligence" and she is at the top of her class academically. She is a happy, healthy and much-loved little girl, and I fail to see how her life would be any better if I quit my job and stayed at home.

I don't feel the need to criticise SAHMs for their choices and I have no axe to grind. I am perfectly happy with my own choices. But yes, of course I am irritated by the smug sense of superiority expressed by some SAHMs who try to assert that their way is the best way. Yes, you may suggest that I am guilty or jealous. I might equally suggest that your comments stem from a sense of inadequacy or a feeling of being unfulfilled - but my saying this doesn't make it so.

Personally, I do not think we should underestimate the importance of mothers making the right choices for themselves, whether that is staying at home or going out to work. An unhappy mother will not be good for her kids.

Liketherain let slip in an earlier post that her ds was 'distraught' (quote) at being left in childcare. She seems to have extrapolated from that, that everyone elses children must be suffering in some way unless they are with their mother 24/7.

The key to intelligent debate is understanding as a start point that not everyone has had the same experiences as you.

I would say... That DC need people in their lives, lots of people...
To put yourself absolutely at number one is fine when they are tiny babies but they need to meet and mix and be cared fir by more people than just mummy.
They will grow up and leave home eventually... so to teach them how to be independent from an early age is a valuable lesson.

Does anyone have his argument in real life? Because I don't think its ever occured to my friends and I to start picking apart our choces like this - but then we all know and like each others children so it would be an odd argument to have with someone when you couldn't think off hand about how exactly their child would be better off if they did things your way.

Kew. I can often be found outside the school gates with a placard!!

I did not say distraught about being left in child care.....I have never done this.

I meant left him completely as on parallel as leaving a job.

Your children and mine would be distraught, your employer would just employ someone else.......as in your are a number.

Never, Kew. I'll bet those such as iliketherain don't either. They just save their comments for faceless people on the internet, Cos that's ok, innit.

Riven - I agree that the argument that women worked pre-war is a peculiar one to use form a womans perspective. I come from a long line of working class women who had no choice but to work in drudge low paid jobs despite in some cases being intelligent and capable of far more. But it is a reasonable argument to use when saying that children should not be cared for by anyone except a parent (and in fact usually the argument is about mother not parent) when patently obviously in the majority of cases for the majority of time since working outside the hoome was invented this didn't happen.

In fact the "breakdown of the family" has happened *since" the war when it became expected that women would give up working and look after their childrne themselves.

Personally I believe that it should be compulsory that men take 6 months paterntiy leave before the child is 3 - quickest way to equalise salaries and improve the status of SAHM's!

Too right it is ok .....I would not dream of saying my true feelings about the mums at school.

Which is why I vent it all on here.

I have a SAHM friend who is so balanced in her views it's unbelievable ( after reading this thread it is unbelievable)

She can see both sides, is thankful and grateful for the time she spends with DC and for the things she can do which are of great benefit to her DC but she also praises the choices made by many friends of hers who work- she worries that she is not teaching her DC to spread their wings and also worries about their dependency on her..

kitty but how do you know what she really thinks??????

She is saying what you want to hear.

But iliketherain, why do you feel so strongly about what thebother mums at school do that you need to "vent" on here? Do they make you feel inadequate in some way?

Kewcumber - if anyone started spouting views like iliketherain's at me in real life I would, quite simply, laugh in their face. Loudly and at length.

Before writing them off as someone not worth bothering with.

But funnily enough no one ever does. Probably because some of the utter crap spouted by certain posters on MN does not remotely reflect their actual opinions. It is just a way to get a rise.

I think this 'breakdown of the family' tripe cliche is because women do dreadful things like divorcing their husbands, insisting on a bit of marital happiness, declaring their own right to be something other than Dutiful Wives And Mothers and so on. Not to speak of those like me who refuse to enter into the state of matrimony in the first place. And those who - gasp - form families with other women. And so on.

"the other" not thebother

yes Kitty - I don;t know how to break this to you but your friends could be iliketherain! Inside she is screaming "you neglectful bitch woman--!"

Iliketherain- :o are you joking? Because she is truthful and because she has done both and so can see the pros and cons of both ... If you must know.

Well of course my children would be distraught if I left them. How you extrapolate from that that I should not go to work is mind boggling. The insight you get on MN to other people's brains is quite disturbing sometimes.

Iliketherain, how the fuck do you know what other SAHMs think. Not all are as blinkered and sanctimonious as you!