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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be totally fucked off with the antisahm comments on here?

987 replies

slackers · 23/09/2011 19:25

Wtaf are you only a good role model to your DC if you are in paid employment?
Why does someone only be valid in society if they earn?
Why should I work only to pay someone else do a job to look after my DC? wtaf is the logic in that?
ffs

Angry
OP posts:
Pissfarterleech · 24/09/2011 13:46

This is just all so ridiculous.

There is no right or wrong.

It al depends on so many factors, what makes the mother happy, what suits her family,can they afford the choice they are making.

I have never understood women who get their knickers in a knot about other women's choices. I do believe that if you are genuinely happy with your choice, you don't give a stuff about anyone else's.

Thos of you denigrating WOHM or SAHM, you all need to take a long hard look at your own lives rather than everyone else's.

aldiwhore · 24/09/2011 13:56

I sure as hell agree that women seem to waste so much emotional energy belittling each other's choices... its all rather tragic.

I can safely say that when DH goes out with HIS mates, they don't argue the finer points of each other's choices, aren't concerned who's more stressed/lazy/tired/put upon. DH has a right mix of friends, as do I, and I don't think its ever occurred to him to think 'he's a right lazy twat' about another father he's drinking with.

Maybe women are more paranoid about whether their choices are the right ones, or less confident, or products of a 'new age' of choice whereby there's actually no one right answer?

I am as guilty as the rest of my 'sisters' in that I'm constantly questioning, comparing, worrying... I DO come away from here sometimes asking myself "Am I actually lazy??" then I usually get over it and think 'sometimes! But I'm still knackered at the end of each day' and I think that's one thing MOST mums have in common.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 24/09/2011 13:56

Well, there's generalisations and then there's statistics. My post was based on the stats cited in the book. That's why I said 'the chances are ...' and not 'it's inevitable ...'

I'm pleased to hear you found an arrangement that works for both of you though.

Pissfarterleech · 24/09/2011 14:03

Some of my friends are SAH, some work full time, some part time, some love their job, some work to put food on the table, some are wealthy, some poor and some somewhere in between.

We all like and look out for each other regardless. It wouldn't cross our minds to question each other's choices because we know everyone is simply doing their best with what they have.

SarahLundsredJumper · 24/09/2011 14:43

Plenty What are the statistics quoted in the book ?
I could not be in a relationship where I was treated in this way.My DM did everything and I mean everything in addition to WOHM and was bitter and resentful.Quite rightly !

SarahLundsredJumper · 24/09/2011 14:46

Pissfarterleech

I agree and I think this is a good point -We see each other as X or Y or Z (insert name) rather than SAHM or WOHM .I suppose this is one of the problems with life on the internet.

pickledsiblings · 24/09/2011 15:25

Some people do it because it is what they have planned to do.
Some people do it because they found the alternative too 'difficult'.
Some people do it because they are better off financially if they do.
Some people do it because they believe it is better for the DC.
Some people do it because family life will be less stressful.
Some people do it because they believe it is the best use of their skills.

All of the above can be applied to both SAH and WOH parents.

For each family it is a fine balancing act between the adult(s) need(s)/the DC(s) need(s)/present and future financial security/the amount of stress we can tolerate in our daily lives etc. etc.

These debates are useful as they legitimise a whole range of 'choices'. It's up to the individual to find a solution that allows them to sleep at night.

If you feel you have made the wrong decision, it's never to late to change your mind Wink. If you are happy with your choice shout loudly on threads like these. If you feel that you have no choice and that if you did you would do it differently, make sure you have explored all the alternatives. There is plenty of food for thought on MN, what ever your decision/dilemma.

Fatshionista · 24/09/2011 15:30

I feel the same. My family tell me the best thing I can be doing is my freelance work, being a SAHM and educating myself but society tells me I can only be a good role model if I work as my partner does and bring home the bacon.

Well, my partner works 38 hours a week. I work constantly, from the moment I get up to the moment I go to sleep and even then DD2 wakes up in the early hours for a feed. I have to keep my studies going, keep a house, look after a puppy, look after two pre-school DD's and look after myself while still running errands, attending appointments and trying to fit in some freelance work if it's going. I think I work damn hard and I think my children will respect the work I did to keep everything in order when they're older.

Bloody people telling me what I should and shouldn't be doing. Fuck off.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 24/09/2011 15:35

for example -

One survey found that only 1% of British men do an equal share of household tasks to their wives (Abrams, 1997, The Playful Self)

In an extensive review of the literature, the difference between the domestic workload of husbands with employed wives and husbands with non-employed wives was found to be exactly ten minutes a day. Husbands overall were doing about 33 per cent of what their wives did around the house; husbands of employed wives about 37 per cent (Steil, 1997, Marital Equality)

In one study of marital equality and well-being, the researcher was forced to abandon her efforts. 'There were too few equally sharing couples to study,' (Steil again)

[S]ociologist, Harriet Presser, found that, when wives go to work outside the home, a third of husbands do more housework and childcare, a third don't change at all, and a third actually do less. (Hochschild, 1997, The Time Bind)

... and on and on, page after page of fucking depressing statistics. Admittedly the stats are a few years old now (the book was written in 2001) and things are probably moving in the right direction, but far too slowly. I haven't noticed any real sea change in the last couple of decades.

FlossieFromCrapstonVillas · 24/09/2011 15:36

Some people haven't worked for so long they're scared shitless at the thought.

I was.

Pissfarterleech · 24/09/2011 17:52

I guess so Flossie.

I guess some working mothers are just as scared of not working [shrugs].

FlossieFromCrapstonVillas · 24/09/2011 18:51

I have the best of both worlds. Respec' to anyone who can do the full time working thing.

Pissfarterleech · 24/09/2011 19:21

In your opinion, Flossie.

Part time to me would be the worst of both.

We're all different, that's the point .Smile

FlossieFromCrapstonVillas · 24/09/2011 19:34

No need to be defensive, PFL. Wasn't my meaning at all, sorry if it came across that way. Smile

scottishmummy · 24/09/2011 20:19

?sorry for my children?. Interesting. thanks for posting. Lets discuss as it as topic worth exploring.
Sorry for my children- presume you mean an emotional response to some alleged or perceived failing they have to endure eg Nursery Mon-Frid 8-6?Feeling sorry always has a pejorative flavour to it.so my turn to ask a few questions
? What is it makes you feel sorry for them?
? Do you feel my dc receive a dysfunctional or inadequate arrangement?
? is it global use of nursery eg you?d not agree with nursery use regardless of hours? Or is there a permissible number of nursery hours you?d regard as acceptable
? is it that you think a woman should watch kids and not be at work elsewhere? Would you regard a woman should be at home ft? what about PT work and what about when kids are absent at school 9-3- where should mum be then?
? okay so if you feel sorry for kids whose mum works ft on basis mum is absent Mon-Frid 8-6?do you extend this to dad?s.do you feel sorry for them? Are they inadequate and absent too? Is it a female thing or do you regard all absence equally?
Sahm is a post war affectation. point is sahm is not historically what most women and children have done,work for centuries has been women and children activity.legislation such as various factory and education acts decreased children in workplace.
this notion of sahm as norm is a misnomer. it is a post war phenomenon
so this allusion to mum and kids at home as norm is a social construct historically women have always worked
I reserve my sorrow for kids who are emotionally and physically neglected. kids who receive no affirmation, lack or regard, and physical neglect/abuse. Unfortunately there are too many kids in this category
Don?t feel sorry for my loved, regarded ,happy dc . its misplaced and dripping sentimentality
I can honestly say I have never had any qualms about ft work and nursery use.no guilt. nada. none. and yes its as statement of fact my kids at nursery ft. and we are happy they are happy.win-win

finally,are my kids a fashion item?
absolutely yes! how else would i get to have a fleet of bugaboos cameleon and bees in every permutation and of course a bundle of fancy baby bags. or to trot about with fashionable accessories.indeed a child is so 2011

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 24/09/2011 20:46

Well, I suppose before the industrial revolution there wouldn't generally have been such a separation between work and home in any case, so probably WOHM are just as much a social construction as SAHM. Working from home is another solution that mothers parents are rediscovering.

It's no surprise that SAHM feel defensive when they are continually told they are not contributing to society and it's no surprise that WOHM feel defensive when they are continually told they are neglecting or abandoning their children. 'A mother's place is in the wrong' and all that Sad

SarahLundsredJumper · 24/09/2011 20:53

I dont feel sorry for your children scottishmummy but I sort of feel sorry for you .
I have never been a SAHM in the true sense of the word but I took a year of mat leave with each child. I returned to work on a very parttime basis until youngest was 11 .
I studied and kept my professional development up to date and then got my dream job over fulltime colleagues .
My eldest has just finished gcses (brilliant results :D) and in a couple of years she will be off to Uni .
Nothing will ever compare to the time I spent with them when they were little - the long ,wonderful days , absolute bliss of just being with my DC -no other pressures . It makes me smile just thinking about it and yet you reduce this to "Precious moments " in such a nasty way. Well you will never know will you ???

scottishmummy · 24/09/2011 20:56

no thats the point working mum isnt a social construct its has demonstrably been going on for centuries. post war sahm is a social construct and pretty recent as is middle class hand wring about doing so like oj affluenza

no i dont subscribe to defeatist mothers place is in wrong
and men dont get pelters for working

scottishmummy · 24/09/2011 21:00

no dont feel sorry for me im doing what i want,what was planned
im grounded and secure enough to know my kids are great and im a good enough mother

and its not me who reckons i miss precious moments its the precious moments mamas who are aghast. i dont need to see every burp,giggle or activity. i dont think im missing anything.

ThePosieParker · 24/09/2011 21:10

SM You can imagine though that for those mothers who cherish every precious moment that they may noit understand anyone wanting to 'miss' them. Just like I understand that someone who feels that they need to work (for whatever reason) may think you have to lose a few cells to stay at home. Neither is true of course, but they are widely held beliefs.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 24/09/2011 21:11

But without the work/home separation, a working mum would have had her DC with her, hence there wouldn't have been this conflict.

I don't subscribe to 'a mother's place is in the wrong' either, but if all the bollocks put-downs on both sides are heeded, that's the cumulative message. It stinks. What are pelters?

scottishmummy · 24/09/2011 21:20

no,the kids also worked in factories etc and eventually legislation capped working age and statutory education act.sahm is a historical misnomer.there wasnt a great saw the of sahm.only the prosperous who had governess and sent children away

scottishmummy · 24/09/2011 21:22

i dont think any mum cherishes everything wean does as precious. imo precious is significance not quantity. so not its not all precious and bathed in light.sometimes its frustrating,boring or cant be bothered

Portofino · 24/09/2011 21:23

sm is correct. "Quality time" is a post war construct. Women were guilted out of paid employment to make room for returning war heros. Before that, poor women worked, and rich women outsourced child care to nannies and governesses.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 24/09/2011 21:27

I'm talking about before the industrial revolution - before factories.

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