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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

problems with childcare

148 replies

Melinwelin · 23/09/2011 08:41

Hi Ladies
I would like to gage your reactions and comments please.

My daughter went to a local nursery from 9months old and I recently made the decision to move her to a childminder as she seemed to be constantly picking every bug up, other than that I was happy with her care.

I found a local childminder and she has a daughter the same age as my daughter (17months) and was also looking after another little girl 11months. During the second week I noticed my daughter had a really nasty bite on her shoulder (teeth marks and bruising) so I phoned the childminder who was apologetic and confessed that her daughter was going through a phase and she would keep an eye on the situation. I gave the benefit of the doubt but was not happy that it was not mentioned before. My daughter would have been really distressed and it played on my mind the whole of the weekend. During the 3rd week I collected her on the Wednesday to be told that a biting incident had happened again but the childminder had intervened, when I got home her little arm was so bruised that as far as I was concerned no intervention took place or if it had it was too late. I decided not to return my child to her care and managed to get her back into nursery on the Friday.

She had been paid upto the end of that week. She is now taking me to a small claims court for 4weeks notice (£620) but my argument is that she was in breech of her contract as she was unable to protect my child in her care and why should I be penalised and have to pay for two child care providers when this is of no fault of myself or my daughter..

Ok ladies whats your thoughts........ Do I fight this? Do I stand a chance? I am really upset by the whole thing and just wanted what was best for by baby....xx
___

OP posts:

cory · 23/09/2011 10:21

I am sure they do hurt, Sardine, and I was certainly very upset when ds was bitten. But I still don't think pulling a child out of any setting where a painful injury has occurred and refusing to fulfill one's obligations is the right way forward. It could be setting up a bad precedent for the future.

My ds is now 11 years old. Those biting incidences were not the last painful things that ever happened to him. Or even, probably, the most painful. Falls in the playground, scuffles with other children, tripping over his feet.

If you start thinking along "run and blame" terms, your child could end up leading a very unsettled life, because there is no environment that will keep them 100% off being hurt.

You could easily end up with no childcare setting and no school for your child to go to. And what would you do if your child was hurt in your care?

I think the best thing I have been able to do for ds is to have kept my emotions to myself and tried to interact as calmly as possible with other people. And pay my way- having a good reputation in the neighbourhood is a social asset for one's child.

lesley33 · 23/09/2011 10:25

cory - I do agreee that we don't always do our DC justice if we try and protect them from any upset and unhappiness. But it is hard with your 1st to get it right in terms of this balance. Much easier as you get older, have more kids and get more confident.

SardineQueen · 23/09/2011 10:27

"human bites, where the skin is broken, need to be monitored quite closely due to the high risk of infection"

This is true. Human bites are worse than dog bites for infection - all of the pathogens are human ones.

lesley a bite which left teeth marks (drew blood?) and left a huge bruise - the OPs DD would have reacted don't you think?

SardineQueen · 23/09/2011 10:28

cory I don't know what you're talking about now - DD1 went to nursery and is now at school, DD2 is at nursery.

lesley33 · 23/09/2011 10:34

SardineQueen - Yes the Op's DD would have reacted at the time - it would have hurt. Whether she reacted later would depend. Some young Dc can have serious injuries, but appear to be unaffected by it. Others can be very upset by a more minor accident for a long time.

It depends on the DC, on how it happened and how it was dealt with at the time.

I don't actually think we can judge from the OP's posting how much it did or didn't affect the DC. But I think we can say that the court will probably find her in breach of contract. And i wouldn't want a judgement against me in the small claims court and so would pay up.

How upset or not the OP's DC was is not really something a court will consider.

SardineQueen · 23/09/2011 10:49

lesley it was because you suggested that the CM might not have known the bite happened. I would be very concerned if CM had not noticed.

SardineQueen · 23/09/2011 10:50

When I was bitten by a toddler I felt like screaming and I was in my 30s! And am not a wuss when it comes to pain... These bites really hurt. If the CM didn't notice there was anything awry then that is a huge concern.

rogersmellyonthetelly · 23/09/2011 10:59

op yabu and pfb. firstly for taking her out of nursery because she was catching bugs all the time - this is what happens. you can either not let her go and wait for her to catch all the bugs when she gets to school or you can get it over with now and by the time she is school age she will be hard as nails.
wrt to the biting, toddlers talk with their fists feet and teeth. unable to communicate their frustration adequately with words, they lash out, usually with a toy in their hands, scratch, bite, kick and generally attempt gbh on whatever they perceive as the cause of their frustration. they do it very quickly too, a pleasant game can degenerate into a fight in a matter of seconds, certainly in less time than it takes for an adult who is maybe getting snacks ready to put stuff down, cross the room and break up the brawl. it can be quite upsetting, and isnt very nice for the other child involved, in this case your dd, but rest assured that your dd will at some point no doubt be the perpetrator rather than the victim, and since since toddlers generally have the attention span of a goldfish, once the pain has gone they forget the incident and get on with playing.

lesley33 · 23/09/2011 11:06

sardinequeen - I didn't suggest that the cm might not have noticed. I said that if the cm said to the court she hadn't told the OP about the bite because she hadn't realised it had happened, that that is just as believable as OP saying the cm hadn't told her because cm hoped she wouldn't notice. There is no proof for either view.

IMO the cm should have noticed the DC was crying. But she may not have realised it was because of a bite. DC involved are young and may not be able to communicate why they are crying.

SardineQueen · 23/09/2011 11:06

"wrt to the biting, toddlers talk with their fists feet and teeth. unable to communicate their frustration adequately with words, they lash out, usually with a toy in their hands, scratch, bite, kick and generally attempt gbh on whatever they perceive as the cause of their frustration. "

Not all of them, by a long chalk.

"Rest assured that your dd will at some point no doubt be the perpetrator "

Not true in the slightest.

Some really odd generalisations on here. Not all toddlers behave like that. Some do, some don't. There is diversity.

SardineQueen · 23/09/2011 11:07

according to others on this thread, the DD should have been able to communicate easily and clearly why she was upset.

There is no cohesion on this thread at all.

lesley33 · 23/09/2011 11:09

I agree not all toddlers behave like this. I just think posters are trying to make the point that is normal behaviour i.e. not parents fault, just a stage some babies/toddlers go through.

lesley33 · 23/09/2011 11:10

sardonequeen - I didn't say that. Different posters may agree it isn't a breach of contract. That doesn't mean that we agree about other things.

wonkylegs · 23/09/2011 11:13

Kids don't always react the way you think they will . We've just come back from a trip to the hospital with DS who cracked his head open falling out of bed onto a tiled floor (we're in a villa on holiday) , huge gash, lots of blood only time he cried was when they glued his head back together.
He's been bitten at nursery (full mouth bite) and they we're really embarrassed to tell me, but I had to laugh when they told me that he wasn't bothered and kept on playing whilst they prised the other child off him , he was quite happy as he got to keep the car they were fighting over , that sounds like my child!
So altho a bite may look nasty doesn't automatically mean a child will make a fuss

SardineQueen · 23/09/2011 11:20

lesley I was just pointing out that there is no coherence. Some are saying 17mo won't be able to communicate, others that if they can't they have SN. Some are saying biting phases are short, others that they last for ages. People saying that biting is not a prob and the OP has over-reacted are giving contradictory reasons.

I suspect there is a difference of opinion on the thread between people whose children have been biters and those who haven't.

The reaction of the OP is not pleasant to the parents of children who have bitten - understandably there are some defensive responses going on.

OTOH the parents of non-biters are generally saying that they perfectly well understand why the OP might want to remove her child from teh situation.

mollschambers · 23/09/2011 11:24

Is there ever coherence on MN threads? Must have missed them!

SardineQueen · 23/09/2011 11:39

molls

Not really, but this seems odd even for MN!

AvaLafff · 23/09/2011 11:44

the only way you can tell 100% if your child is being looked after adequately is to do it yourself

KatieMiddleton · 23/09/2011 11:49

here we go...

RitaMorgan · 23/09/2011 11:56

Some one year olds bite, not nice but it happens. If a cm has 3 under 2 to look after then she can't watch everyone all the time.

It's up to you if you aren't happy with the care but you do owe notice.

Kewcumber · 23/09/2011 11:57

"I've got 6 children and not one of them ever bit another child" - lucky you. I find it hard to beleive that with 6 and all their freinds you've never come across one?

My DS was and went through a biting stage at around this age (maybe a little older). From experince it is way more distressing being the parent of a bite-er than a bite-ee. It was dealt with by me and CM in concert which is generally the best way to deal with it.

Whether she has any claim against you will depend on whether she followed fairly normal practices, whether you have any evidence of the biting/bruising and whether you gave her notice under the contract.

If you weren't happy normal practice would be to give her notice, that you didn't means you were taking a risk that you would still have to pay her for her notice period.

How will you deal with it if she gets bitten at a playgroup when you are with her?

(DS was bitten as well as being a biter)

Kewcumber · 23/09/2011 12:00

From Mumsnets own toddler behaviour guide "Toddlers biting is another common problem"

EdithWeston · 23/09/2011 12:05

I did not say that a child who cannot tell must have special needs. I said that normal children can communicate by that age. It does not have to be verbal. If there was a painful area, or the had been a big problem, then a child would be able to indicate that - specifically to the area or in general demeanour.

TimothyClaypoleLover · 23/09/2011 12:07

^"The reaction of the OP is not pleasant to the parents of children who have bitten - understandably there are some defensive responses going on.

OTOH the parents of non-biters are generally saying that they perfectly well understand why the OP might want to remove her child from teh situation."^

SardineQueen, I am the parent of a non biter who thinks OP overreacted. I don't think you need to have experienced biting children to realise that you cannot wrap your kids up in cotton wool for the next 18 years and that incidents such as this are common place. DD was scratched on the face at nursery by another child but I put it down to kids playing and did not overreact and take my DD out of nursery.

KatieMiddleton · 23/09/2011 12:13

Oh so my DS and other similar children aren't normal Edith? Is that an educated opinion? Or just something you think/feel/believe?

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