Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wonder if posters on here would refer to Islam as "a load of old tosh"..

420 replies

OhdearNigel · 22/09/2011 16:33

...in the same way that they think it is acceptable to ridicule Christianity. If a poster had started a thread about considering joining a mosque I wonder how many people would be prepared to post that Muslims were a bunch of bigoted fools due to their religious belief on homosexuality ? Or that a Hindu's beliefs were, to quote " a load of old tosh" ? If you don't think that would be alright to post, it's not alright to post it about Christianity either.

OP posts:
TheBeast · 23/09/2011 01:46

While I do not think it in any way compares with someone losing a five year old child; bad things happen to atheists too and, if I were a more sensitive soul, I could be offended, hurt even, by the implication that my impending death from terminal cancer quite rightly means that I deserve to go to hell just because I am [and on religionists terms, God made] me sufficiently skeptical to doubt implausible stories in ancient books.

Naughty, God, doing terrible things to religionists and atheists alike. Fortunately, I don't believe in hell and have no fear of being converted to ash or worm food. I have a wonderful wife, children and friends.

Many of my friends of all religions are praying for me and I take comfort that they like me enough to try to intervene with their deities, effectively asking their deities to forgive my stupidity in not being able to come to terms with their existence.

I am very pleased that the poor family of the five year old can seek and get comfort where they can and it is totally unjustified to suggest that any normal person, of whatever religion or non-religion would in such circumstances seek to hurt the family by getting into a discussion such as this one with them.

Pleased about the suggestion that eating prawns are ok - Are you sure of this, though, they don't seem to be within the categories allowed, namely "all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air". I am also still not keen on eating dogs or cats, even if allowed by Acts 10.

Do you think that we can also interpret Peter's saying in Acts 10 to Cornelius that "God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean", should apply to homosexuals too? If we can have consensus on this, I will have more in common with Christians than I thought before this thread was started...

Tortington · 23/09/2011 02:03

good post beast.

i have issues with lots of things (no shit you say)

  1. religeony types who tell me 'god says' or 'god thinks' particularly stunned at the 'god hates gays' signs in the usa

  2. lack of tolerance on both sides of the argument

  3. general rudeness on mn against christians - just on the level of being polite if nothing else

  4. athiesty types who tell me i must believe one thing or another because my religeon says so, and if i don't then i;m not a proper religeony type.l

  5. being patronising - both sides have this down pat.

  6. judgeypants - again both sides have this in equal measure - but the god botherers (me included) tend to forget that actually the ultimate juudge isn;t them

TheBeast · 23/09/2011 02:29

Having been banging on about prawns, I should confess to this being a sensitive issue here; my DD2 had severe reaction to something this week; midnight rushes to A&E included. We are waiting for tests and results but the likely cause is an allergic reaction to prawns which, if the case, will result in them being banned from the house.

I will still get my fix of deep fried chili prawns from the Peking when no one is looking.

UmmuZiyad · 23/09/2011 02:50

what do you get by calling any religion a load of old tosh?

it only shows your own insensitivity towards what ppl consider as sacred in their lives.

leave them be. let them be christians, muslims, jews, atheist, or what not.

the way they practice their religion is not the same like yours, does it mean that you have a say about that.

no you dont.

who are you to say negative things about a belief, when in fact you dont even know half of what the belief is really all about?

GothAnneGeddes · 23/09/2011 03:23

Yet another atheist whinge fest.

Aaaages ago I started an AIBU, stating that the atheists on MN were a bunch of moaners. Got loads of replies stating certainly not, they didn't care about religion and rarely thought about it.

But look, yet another thread of moaning and sneering.

The Beast - people do not have to answer your questions. No one is obliged to educate you. Learn to bloody Google.

OP YABU - Have you never seen a Burqa thread (because there have been many)? 500+ posts mostly written by people who have never met a Muslim in their lives and completely ignore the posts made by any Muslim women. And the ignorance! The ignorance! From Mayor Quimby upthread claiming that Islam was 'run' by men, when Islam doesn't actually have a clerical system to someone on another thread claiming that Syria was a theocracy. Yes, really. Yet you still have to be polite otherwise you are just a nasty person and therefore all Muslims are nasty and that's why it's ok to be mean to them and legislate against their clothing choices.

to Riven and UmmZ

CheerfulYank · 23/09/2011 03:39

Oh Beast I am sorry.

Hmm. Well. I don't like being told I'm stupid for believing in a deity, though it happens occasionally. I can't not believe in It, though, and I certainly won't lie. And I get upset when I'm told that I'm "brainwashing" my child because, as I've said before, telling him that I believe there is a Great Goodness who wants us to be kind, etc, and that some part of us we can't explain survives physical death...well, it's the truth. That's what I believe, and I won't lie to my son about that.

As far as the list goes, I pretty much believe what Meteorite does.

  1. Creationism- metaphor for Big Bang, evolution, etc, etc. The Bible says something about a hundred thousand years being but the blink of an eye to God, so how long must one of God's days be?
  1. Virgin Birth -I believe that parthogenesis is possible, yes. (Spelling? Confused)
  2. The resurrection - I believe it happened.
  3. Eternal life -I believe it happens.
  4. Reincarnation - I'm not sure. I do sort of believe in it, actually.
  5. Heaven - I believe in it.
  6. Hell - I don't know
  7. Purgatory - I don't know.
  8. Your belief is the only true belief - I believe it is the only true belief for me, and I believe that it is right for me and my life at this time.

I don't go knocking on doors. I try to help people and the world as much as possible, which is my way of spreading the love of God. If anyone asks, I would of course tell them that I'm a Christian.

There are wonderful people of all beliefs or lack of. There are some posters on this very thread whom I adore; it wouldn't occur to me to think of them any differently because they don't have the beliefs I do. There are also assholes of all beliefs or lack of. I just sort of feel that if what someone chooses to do with their lives isn't hurting anyone else, then that is between them and God, or between them and their own conscience if you prefer. (They're somewhat the same to me.)

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god; it neither picks my pocket or breaks my leg." -Thomas Jefferson

OldMumsy · 23/09/2011 05:39

It's all tosh but they can lock you up for saying it about Islam so shhhhhh...

seeker · 23/09/2011 07:10

No, they can't.

They can lock you up for saying Islam is a load old tosh so let's go and throw stones at Muslims.

Slightly different.

TheBeast · 23/09/2011 07:21

Meteorite Fri 23-Sep-11 00:29:43 and CheerfulYank Fri 23-Sep-11 03:39:18

See, I can disagree with just about all those beliefs but would be very happy, without sneering, to argue why those beliefs are wrong and how a proper scientific analysis would prove this but I wouldn't think any less of you for having them or believe they cause any harm.

I would also accept that a religion which main tenets are (1) to love God and (2) your fellow humans is a force for good, misguided in its reasons, but a force for good nonetheless. After all, I believe in 50% of those tenets.

As I don't believe in heaven or hell, I suppose it doesn't matter to me whether only people who share your beliefs will end up in heaven but you sound like the kind of people who would genuinely miss some non-believers from your heaven.

Now, if you could think up a name which clearly defined this form of Christianity and distinguished it from the kind of hellfire and brimstone Christianity I was brought up in, we could more easily distinguish and differentiate it from those forms of Christianity and other religions which deserve to have the micky taken.

@GothAnneGeddes

As the religious posters on here all seem to have very individual beliefs, how do you suggest I Google them?

There clearly are people who call themselves Christians who believe that homosexuality is a sin and who base that belief on a throwaway line in the Old Testament; there are people who call themselves Christians who believe it is ok to marry and rape multiple brides of twelve or under.

There are Muslims who pretty much also believe that all you need is to love God and your fellow man and, again, I have no problems with them but there are also those who call themselves Muslims who apparently believe it is OK to mutilate babies, male and female, by circumcision and, apparently, some who claim that virgins (possibly male and female virgins) will be made avaiable to believers in heaven; some Muslims apparently believing that 72 such virgins will be made avaiable to martyrs. There are some Muslims who apparently believe the path to martyrdom and access to the virgins is through the slaying of infidels although I also understand this to be a misinterpretation of the Koran. How do you suggest I Google to find out which of these beliefs a specific Muslim Mumsnet poster has, rather than asking them direct?

If someone claims to be a Muslim, should I assume their beliefs follow the former or the latter paths. I certainly am not prepared to consider their beliefs equally meritorious.

Again, depending on the actual beliefs and actions taken as a consequence of those beliefs, I believe I have a right to oppose, object and even mock those whose beliefs are, imo, barbaric, such as those who under cover of their religion marry minors and/or force minors into marriage as well as those who circumcise children and the many other horrible acts which are conducted in the name of religion.

If you belong to a religion which is part of a group of religions some elements of which endorses (or even is wrongly suspected of endorsing)
wrongful, illegal or immoral acts, the more you explain about your exact beliefs, the less you are likely to be included in a diatribe against the overall religion you belong to.

I will also say (and she may not thank me for doing so) everything I have learnt about Riven on Mumsnet, suggests to me that she is deserving not only of everything that is good in this world but also to be sanctified by every decent deity that any of you believe in.

Whatmeworry · 23/09/2011 07:27

Insult Islam and you get a fatwah, insult Christianity and you get woolly hand rubbing. 'nuff said.

redheadbedhead · 23/09/2011 07:41

if it's about alpha stuff, then I know PLENTY of Christians who think THAT'S a load of old tosh. Just saying. HTH.

Riveninabingle · 23/09/2011 07:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrGin · 23/09/2011 07:52

Christ. There really are some sanctimonious wingers on here.

If you don't want people to ridicule your beliefs then stop going on about them on a public forum. Stop expecting respect just because you believe in a sky God.

Coco. That is pretty low bringing a dead child into the discussion.

Riveninabingle · 23/09/2011 07:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Angel786 · 23/09/2011 08:31

Lol @ MrGin there may be some (right/left) wingers but also a fair few whingers Grin

MrGin · 23/09/2011 08:35

I dont think they do unless its a religious thread.

Well obviously. I wouldn't expect a breast feeding thread to be discussing potty training.

But clearly there are religious threads, like this one started by a believer, as well as the Alpha course thread, both outside of the religious section where they belong.

And thus you get the odd situation of a Christian posting about their beliefs in AIBU and getting upset when told by some that their beliefs are considered ' a load of old tosh'.

You can't say ' oh I keep my beliefs to myself' and then start posting about them here and expecting your beliefs to merit complete respect and zero criticism.

MrGin · 23/09/2011 08:36

Angel786

:o

Spelling. Never my strength. I can draw rather well though.

Whatmeworry · 23/09/2011 08:37

Left/Right Wing Whingers . Perfect :)

BlueFergie · 23/09/2011 08:43

Christianity, Islam ....whatever. Its all a load of tosh. Just my opinion though....

Spero · 23/09/2011 08:45

Very well said TheBeast and mrgin.

ummu - you said 'leave them be.' do you accept at least that we would collectively have a duty to intervene in religious practices and believes that were against the law in this country? For eg genital mutilation of girls?

I still don't understand why your right not to be offended is more important than my right to be allowed to think freely and discuss what I say.

The logical extension of elevating freedom from offense to the top of the tree is that no one will be allowed to say anything as you can bet somebody somewhere is getting upset. But if I 'upset' someone who believes their god tells them to cut off bits of a child's genitals, I am really not going to lose any sleep over that.

Whatmeworry · 23/09/2011 08:49

I still don't understand why your right not to be offended is more important than my right to be allowed to think freely and discuss what I say

I shall use that the next time a Professionally Offended type takes me to task :)

begonyabampot · 23/09/2011 09:14

I guess being up in the christian (catholic) religion and belonging in a way to that club I feel I'm allowed to criticise it more (as you do your own family) than a religion I've never been involved in.

Empjusa · 23/09/2011 10:14

There's a sketch by Dara O'Briain where he talks about the whole, "oh you'll joke about Christianity but you won't dare joke about Islam!" thing. His response was, "there are 2 reasons for that. 1 I don't know enough about Islam, 2 Neither do you"

Which is a very fair point.

I will pick holes in Christian beliefs (and more specifically, the Church) because I know enough about it to do so, having been brought up in a mostly Christian country where you struggle to get through life without having to engage with Christian beliefs.

I do not know enough about other religions to pick holes. But trust me, I would if I did!

So you may think people are avoiding talking about Islam due to "being PC" or having some kind of weird respect for it, but they most likely aren't.

Like I said earlier, atheists don't have favourite and least favourite religions.

And I will repeat as well. I'm not an atheist.

TequillaMockingBird · 23/09/2011 10:50

I have my very own religion with Katie Price as a deity, everyone gets benefits, indoor shoes are removed, toilet brushes are everywhere, breastfeeding is banned and women are not allowed to stay home with their children.

Does anyone on MN dare to challenge my beliefs? Grin

MrGin · 23/09/2011 10:58

that is just falsetittytosh Tequilla