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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to wonder if posters on here would refer to Islam as "a load of old tosh"..

420 replies

OhdearNigel · 22/09/2011 16:33

...in the same way that they think it is acceptable to ridicule Christianity. If a poster had started a thread about considering joining a mosque I wonder how many people would be prepared to post that Muslims were a bunch of bigoted fools due to their religious belief on homosexuality ? Or that a Hindu's beliefs were, to quote " a load of old tosh" ? If you don't think that would be alright to post, it's not alright to post it about Christianity either.

OP posts:

PedigreeChump · 22/09/2011 23:04

Christianity is the punchbag de jour Catholicisim - well, fasten those boxing gloves.

Some people can be breathtakingly rude and judgemental about Christianity and particularly Catholicism. Both people of other denominations and faith and those of none. It is very tiring. Its demoralising and humiliating. But Christianity is a positive influence on my life and those of millions of others. So I shrug it off and carry on.

GrimmaTheNome · 22/09/2011 23:06

Yet most people who believe in a higher being (religious or not) say it brings them incrediable happiness."

I'd have said that too, when I was a very happy christian.

And then I lost my faith and....I'm still happy!

Mumcentreplus · 22/09/2011 23:08

A sincere belief held whatever it is ...imo deserves dignity..I think you are actually quite a disrespectful person if you feel your opinion must be voiced in such a dismissive and confrontational way...I do wonder if these 'opinions' would be so forthcoming in RL...

Cocoflower · 22/09/2011 23:08

Thats good Grimma

Yet I must say a lot of the very vocal atheists on MN, and the famous ones like Dawkins hardly strike me as happy, upbeat people full of joy!

Iamjustthemilkmachine · 22/09/2011 23:09

Perhaps if one grows up in a Christian society one is more inclined to take the piss out of it, in the same way I have no probs taking the piss out of my country, but if you do it I'd be somewhat upset.
It may also have to do with the historically violent campaings Christianity has undertaken throughout the world, killing many more than Islam has in the west.
It's all tosh anyway.s more inclined to take the piss out of it, in the same way I have no probs taking the piss out of my country, but if you do it I'd be somewhat upset.
It may also have to do with the historically violent campaings Christianity has undertaken throughout the world, killing many more than Islam has in the west.
It's all tosh anyway.

TheBeast · 22/09/2011 23:10

@Sariah any any other religious person of whatever persuasion on here:

Please stop waffling and let us know which of the following are true:

Creationism
Virgin Birth
The resurrection
Eternal life
Reincarnation
Heaven
Hell
Purgatory
Your belief is the only true belief

Saying things like there are elements of truth in all religions without being prepared to identify any such "truths" is just tosh.

Iamjustthemilkmachine · 22/09/2011 23:10

I won't post again from phone, sorry.

booyhoo · 22/09/2011 23:12

i think for most people, religious belief is a matter of chance.

my mum is a catholic because she was born into a catholic family in a very catholic town in ireland and it would not have been possible for her to opt out of that. she didn't choose to believe in god, the choice was made for her. if she had been born in afghanistan,i doubt she would be a catholic.

my friend is a jehovah's witness becaue her mum converted herself and her children when my friend was 3. she didn't choose to believe either, again it was made for her. she is now married to a catholic and doesn't practise anymore.

friend's mum converted when her husband left her, alone with 3 small children, jehovah's witnesses came a knocking and she grabbed hold of the support with both hands. if it had been evangelical christians knocking, she probably would have converted to them instead. jehovah's witnesses just got there first.

environment is a very influential factor. if catholocism (for example) appears to be the norm where you grow up then it stands to reason you might choose catholocism as a faith rather than buddhism (sp?)

all those who do believe in a higher power. why do you believe in your god rather than one of the many others that people believe in?

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 22/09/2011 23:12

TheBeast, didn't the Pope abolish Purgatory a while ago?

Cocoflower · 22/09/2011 23:16

Wether you friend had become Catholic, a Jehovas Witness or Christian she still would be believing in the same God.

WineAndPizza · 22/09/2011 23:17

I think there are actually direct attacks on here. It's the one thing I think makes me really uncomfortable about Mumsnet. I was on a thread once where a post said that all Catholics supported paedophilia and hardly anybody challenged him/her on it.

I don't want to get into a debate about my personal beliefs or lack thereof.

The 'why can't I just say there are aliens living in my attic' thing does always come up - if you want to, go for it. But I think the thing about most major religions is that they have come from somewhere and not just been plucked out of the air in the last two seconds.

And Christian teaching is generally about tolerance and forgiveness, not taking every word of the bible literally. Obviously there are exceptions but I don't think it's the majority.

Sariah · 22/09/2011 23:25

The Beast. I think the truth is the truth and exists independently of whether anyone is actually aware of it or believes it.

I don't pretend to know all the answers but I do search, ponder, practice and try to understand and also try to understand where others are coming from.

Take the area of baptism. The faith I grew up on believes in infant baptism to get rid of sin. The faith I now practice teaches that a child does not need to be baptised. That a child has no sin and is completely innocent and that if they die they go straight back to live with their Heavenly Father. It teaches that at age 8 a child can tell the difference between right and wrong and that they start being responsible at this age for their actions and are baptised at this age. To me, the second scenario makes more sense to me and so I believe there is more truth there and so I practice this. That does not mean I think less or would ridicule anyone who follows their faith and believes its teachings and does what they think is best for their child in the same way as you do what you think is best.

booyhoo · 22/09/2011 23:26

but the beliefs aren't all the same though are they? unless you are saying that catholicism, jehovah's witness and evangelical christianity are the one thing?

TheBeast · 22/09/2011 23:27

@OldLadyKnowsNothing

That may or may not mean that people don't believe in it and even if he did that still doesn't answer my question(s) about what the religionists actually believe in. They seem incredibly reluctant to tell us what their faith actually consists of.

Many seem to believe that The Bible/Koran/Other Religious Treatise should not be taken literally but, surely, there must be some elements of these books which must be true to those who "believe" in them? If they don't believe in their religion, the argument is won.

Sariah · 22/09/2011 23:32

There are more similarities than differences. The only way you can know if something is true is to put if into practice, pray about it, live it and see if it blesses your life, makes those around you happy, if it is better than anything else you have come across, hold onto it and cherish it until you come across something better. Always keep an open mind and an open heart. The bible and most other sacred texts have been translated time after time and have probably lost some of their original meaning so I would not take things literally but still the bible can be used for personal revelation and to increase spiritual gifts.

Cocoflower · 22/09/2011 23:32

Well in a way as they are all under the umbrella of Christianity

TheBeast · 22/09/2011 23:34

@Sariah

So what happens to people over the age of eight who do wrong? Do they go to hell?

Do non-Christians who do right go to heaven?

Where do we find out what is right or wrong? Please don't just say "The Bible"; it is totally contradictory.

Is homosexuality wrong? Is eating prawns wrong?

So many questions, so little time for those of us suffering from terminal cancer...

mayorquimby · 22/09/2011 23:35

go on then just for the craic.
Islam is a bunch of old tosh, run by bigotted and mysoginistic fools and currently being used by a dangerous minority for violence.
Much like christianity.

booyhoo · 22/09/2011 23:41

but why do they believe different things if it is all the same god telling them whats what?

Sariah · 22/09/2011 23:42

I think everyone gets the chance to hear the Gospel in its fullness, whether in this life or after they have passed and that everyone will have a chance to accept it or reject it, thats the great thing about free will. People over the age of 8 who do wrong (everybody) can learn from it and move on or can keep doing wrong. I dont know what will happen anyone as I can not see into their hearts and I do not know their intents. It is not for me to judge but I do believe that everyone will be resurrected and everyone will be judged and depending on that judgement they will pass onto the next stage of life. Some will be in the presence of God and Jesus, others Just Jesus and others will not have the presence of either. If I want to know if something is right or wrong I pray about it or I talk to someone I trust or I seek it out and ponder it until I feel good about it. I believe in and practice the law of chastity which prohibits any sex outside a lawful marriage between a man and woman. I have no problem with eating prawns as that was in the old testament which is the Mosaic law and which was superceded by the new and ever lasting covenant which Jesus made with us.

GrimmaTheNome · 22/09/2011 23:43

Yes, but most 'mainstream' christians tend to think there's a lot of tosh in JW (blood transfusions) and as far as I can tell JWs think they're the only proper christians and doorstep everyone else... most protestants think transubstantiation is tosh, most christians in the UK think creationism is tosh... Muslims think the idea of the Trinity is tosh (to put it mildly) .... just about every part of one persons belief will be tosh to some other believer.

About all that's ever left is the Golden Rule and atheists usually think that's a good idea too!

Cocoflower · 22/09/2011 23:45

Does it matter?

If someones five year kid has just died and they take comfort in God then leave them be

booyhoo · 22/09/2011 23:45

see i know if i was god andsaw all these different variations of what it meant to be my follower I'd do a big conference call to you all and tell you what the rules were. i might even email you all the bullet points for you too printoff and put up on the fridge so there was no room for error. i mean if he wants you all in his team then surey itis to his benefit if you are all playing by the same rules?

GrimmaTheNome · 22/09/2011 23:50

Does it matter?

Does it matter? Well, yes, if any of these religions was true of course it would matter. If there really was a heaven - or hell - too bloody right it would matter!

If someones five year kid has just died and they take comfort in God then leave them be

I don't know a single person who would do otherwise. Its called 'compassion' - shared by humanity at large.

booyhoo · 22/09/2011 23:51

see that's the thing cocoflower. my mum takes huge comfort in her god. it doesn't exist but shegets somethimg out of it. but getting comfort from it is not proof in ayway shape or form that her god exists. just like my son gets comfort from the idea that his missing cat is living on a farm smewhere chasing lots of mice.

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