to be absolutely sick to death of my DCs and really, really wish I never had them?

[Losinit]

DCs are 13(DD), 10(DS), 8(DS) and 2(DD). The older ones totally ignore me and I have to repeat myself again and again until I shout and feel like I am going to burst a blood vessel. It not that I can let it go either - this is got stuff like going to bed, getting up for school, getting school stuff together, getting shoes on, getting in car etc. I was never a horrible aggressive person like this and I swear everyday will be different but it is always the same. They will continue talking to each other while I am talking to them.

I actually just whacked the DSs as I asked one of them literally 6 times to do something for me as we were in a rush to go out and he would not do it. The other one was hiding in the clean ironed washing on my bed wearing the muddy trousers and jumper I had told him to take off. He thought it would be a great laugh to jump out on me while getting mud all over the place and screwing up the clothes. I did'nt! Now feel like shit of course and I know it won't make a blind bit of difference.

Everything is a bloody battle. They are rude, embarrass me in public with their arging and fighting, tell me the food I cook is disgusting, throw packets, wrappers and half eaten sweets behind the sofa and tv, leave the bathroom and toilets in a mess (I have been making them help with cleaning but again I have to shout and shout to make them do it). The oldest has been getting into trouble at school for being disruptive and my 10 year old is being assessed for possible ADHD again after long term behaviour problems. The stress has been exhausting.

Punishments do not make any difference to their behaviour either. I cannot understand where I went wrong with them. I am an intelligent person, show them a lot of love, have taught them right from wrong and try to do fun things with them.

We have had discussions about how their behaviour needs to improve because they are upsetting me but they really don't give a shit. I have always put myself last since I became a mother and always tried to make the DCs lives happy and I am now sick of getting no respect or consideration. The 2 year old is what is keeping me going at the moment I am sorry to say.

I am so BU I know but I really feel like buggering off and leaving DH to it. He is more 'together' than me and I feel like I am only screwing them up more. I probably am depressed but I defy anyone to live with them and not be. I sometimes wish we could be filmed so I can really see where I am going wrong.

My sympathies OP. I suggest some tough love.

If DD is curling her lashes when you're ready to leave for school, leave without her, then write to the school explaining truthfully why she had the day off.

Re: rubbish strewn about, collect it all up and put it down their beds. Including cereal bowls and plates, with leftover shreddies and milk, toast crumbs etc. They may not enjoy sleeping in that.

If they embarrass you in public, do the same to them. (once in a shopping centre when my 2 were being a nightmare I just stood on the spot and screamed).

Keep a big pair of scissors handy. Next time they squabble over the PS3 or Wii, cut the flex (perhaps switch off the electricity first). They can have it back when their behaviour improves, but in the meantime they can research how to wire a plug then actually do it.

They will think you are stark raving mad of course, and I am not pretending my dc are perfect but these things have worked for me

Good luck.

lol at supernanny, what the hell does she know, she has never lived with a problem child 24/7 - christ she doesnt even have any kids ! but i expect she read a about it book once.

I would stop trying to make excuses for the little sods and crack right down on the behaviour. Dont sweat the small stuff but if you ask for something to be done and it isnt, make consequences.

If you want their washing brought down and it isnt, it doesnt get washed. If you want them out the door by 8 and they arent, go without them.

Do you do anything just for yourself? Something like swimming, pilates, yoga - anything that you would enjoy, that would be good for you and give you time to just be you, a proper break at least once a week.

If you don't - please sign up for something! And go to it, no matter what. Stop putting yourself last, it is not in the interests of your dc.

And I know this is obvious - but since mornings are such a flashpoint, it is a good idea to ensure that absolutely everything needed for the morning is ready the night before. That means they won't be hassling you with any "where is my..."? questions. It means they have absolutely no excuse for not being ready.

JLK-don't you fall off that high horse now.

Wow, OP, thank you for doing this thread. I was ready to walk out the door this morning as I was so angry with my 2s constant squabbling. some fab advice on here which will help me and lots of other mnners no doubt. Def get a spa day/weekend booked!

Tons of good suggestions here I am going to store up... Agree with many of the good points about letting them take on the consequences of their own actions, ie being late for school thus getting detention etc.

I was interested to read your recent post, OP, about what you want life to be like - again, pretty much all of that was about what you want for your children - to eat nice food, read instead of watch tv etc - all understandable hopes for them, but what about you? How do you want to be spending your day? Focus on you more. Maybe you do need to get out of the house more - it would be nice if they didn't squabble, but if at least you're out having a coffee or at at a yoga class or something instead of watching them do it, that gives you some time out.

I have found a book by Allison Mitchell called Time Management for Manic Mums very helpful. Lots of advice on organising yourself but one thing she does in particular is asks you how you want your day to be ideally and then work towards achieving that. I think this might be helpful for you and again, focuses on you and making you happier instead of running around after the kids. You can get it for 1p plus postage 2nd hand on Amazon so worth a thought.

Just one other thing. I have 4 children btw. I don't think you should always put your DC first. You need time away doing something you enjoy. Get babysitter for youngest and do something once a week you want to.

IMO its easy for things to get on top of you if you never do things for yourself.

The reason they ignore you I think is:

1. They don't have to listen. They know you will say the same things again and again and they will hear it at some point.

1. There are no real consequences. I know you punish them. But I think as DC get older they need to understand that not doing the kind of things you talk about will have direct consequences such as being late for things. With your constant shouting and chivvying them up, they don't experience this direct consequence of their actions.

So in the same way supernanny tells DC once they are wrong, if they do it again gives them a verbal warning and then consequences...you could do the same.

So agree with not constantly telling them about getting up, getting in car, etc. Tell them night before that you are only going to tell them once and then give them 1 reminder and the rest is up to them.

So tell them e.g. you need to get up for school. 3-5 mins later just remind them that you that you need to get up for school. Then leave them. 5 mins before time to go tell them you that it is time to go in 5 mins. If they are still in bed don't shout at them that they are still in bed, etc, only say that it is time to go in 5 mins.

Then when it is time to go tell them it is time to go I will be waiting in the car for you. Then go and sit in the car - listen to music or read a book to help you keep calm. And don't go in and hurry them up. If 1or 2 come and sit in car and others aren't ready they may tell you to go in and hurry other child up. Don't. Just say I have told them I am waiting in the car.

Remind yourself that the worst that can happen is that they are late for school. This really really isn't a big deal to happen on a few occasions. And really is nothing in comparison to you wanting to walk out.

You may decide it is unfair to leave youngest totally to organise themselves - it depends on their capabilities. I think most 8 year olds are perfectly capable, but I don't know your DC. But other 2 should be fine.

You will probably be late for school. DC may blame you. Tell them I told you to get up/put clothes on, and that it was 5 mins till we went. Then refuse to talk to them about it anymore,answer their complaints/queries. Just ignore them. If you keep this up,they will take responsibility for themselves.

With meals tell them beforehand that if they moan about your food you will put it in the bin. Then 1 st time they do it give them a warning e.g. i will put your food in the bin if you talk about the food like that again. Then second time do it and don't let them have anything else.

Next time don't give them a warning, just put food in the bin.

With sweet wrappers thrown behind sofa. Ask them to pick it up once. When they ignore you tell them you will not give them any more sweets or money for sweets until they have picked it up and put it in the bin. They may not listen as you say this - it doesn't matter.

Next time they ask for sweets or money they could spend on sweets tell them no as I told you before until you pick up the sweet wrapper/s behind the sofa I will not give you sweets/money you can spend on sweets. If they say they didn't hear you saying this, just tell them I did say that but you weren't listening.

And apart from that refuse to get into any discussion at all. I am sure they will try and argue with you e.g. its not my sweet wrapper,this isn't fair,etc. Don't answer and just walk away. And don't give in and give sweets/money until they have done it. And don't ask them again to get sweet wrapper.

Of course for this to work you have to empty all sweets/crisps out of the house. Otherwise you are at risk of themjust helping themselves.

The point is that they experience the direct consequence of their action without you having to get stressed with punishments. Of course if they need money for other things as well I would just refuse to give it to them as you could spend that money on streets. But don't get into a discussion/argument with them.

Lastly, you need to also build up positive relationshipswith DC by having good times too. So:

1. Try and find at least 2 things to praise each DC about every day. I know its not always easy, but it does make a difference. But they have to be worthy of praise as DC this age have an in built bullshit detector. If struggling for things compliment their hair or outfit.

1. Try and plan fun things to do together. I know it is hard with a wide spread of ages. But maybe going for a picnic where the oldest get to make whatever food they want to eat and you take along a football. Choose things that won't stress you out. So not a meal out for example.

1. When things are getting a bit better you could allow each child to have a turn in choosing a fun activity for you all to do once a week. Give them a budget for this and stick to it. And again let them feel the consequences. So DC chooses a theme park - say we only have £x the theme park costs Y. If they insist remind them again. And then if they insist go and find out when you get there there isn't enough money to get in. This works best if you only take exactly the amount for the budget you have said so you aren't tempted to cave in. This soon teaches them to choose within budget - and budget can be very small e.g. £3. So could be waterfight outside with £3 for water pistols.

1. Try and spend some time alone with each child every week doing something nice. For example,reading a bedtime story, playing a game, playing football, etc. Doesn't matter what it is. But it musn't be something you hate. The idea is to enjoy being together.

And lastly get them involved in chores. I know this can be very hard work. So make it things where if they don't do it,it doesn't really affect you. So only washing put in washing bag gets washed - on the floor near it doesn't count. You put all clothes in 1 cupboard. They have to sort out their clothes and for oldest 2 they have to iron them.

Lastly remind yourself that although things need to get better for your sake - you haven't done too badly. The police aren't at your door regularly,you are not having to take your DC to court, they are not taking drugs or pregnant, etc.

I always found this helps. Because however hard it is, some parents will be having major problems with pregnant 12 year olds, kids taking drugs, etc.

Sorry for previous long post. But I also wondered if by you ignoring your wants that they have subtly picked up the message that mum's needs aren't important. They may not be able to articulate it. but they may still have picked up that message.

Do some things just for you as well. Your needs are imprtant too.

" It's like they can smell my weakness and they know no matter how much I shout, they will get and do what they want"

I know just what you mean.

I have thought this about my own dc's (12, 8 and 6, and youngest ds has asd).

I find it intensely frightening when I sense my children have got the bit between their teeth. Makes me feel very out of control and panicky.

I think they find it frightening too. I often wonder if their bad behaviour escalates because they want to push me to the point where I take control.

I've cried in front of my children over their behaviour, and a couple of weeks ago I swore in front of my 12 year old.

I've now made a vow that I'm going to stop shouting because I can see it's useless, creates a horrible atmosphere in the house, and pushes my youngest, who has asd into a state of hyper arousal, where his behaviour becomes impossible to manage.

Things have been better the last week since I've stopped shouting. I've been getting up earlier and being more organised about uniform/packed lunches etc so we're less stressed leaving the house.

If dd doesn't get up within ten minutes of being called I've told her that I'll simply take the time off her bed-time until she starts to get up without having to be told repeatedly. I'm not going to ask her more than twice now. It'll be earlier bed time plus being in trouble at school for being late.

Would like to give the thumbs up to what everyone is saying about the importance of looking after yourself. You are the linchpin of your family and if you are unhappy and stressed it will make it impossible for you to parent effectively.

I think as well you also need to acknowledge that parenting today is very, very hard. We don't bring our children up to be compliant any more (well I didn't) in the way our parents may have done with us. And we are encouraged to have ridiculously high expectations for them, in terms of their accomplishments and their education, which puts so, so much pressure on us. Honestly - it is hard. You need to cut yourself some slack.

This is me, too.

Haven't read whole thread and have to go out now but am marking my place because I need this thread, am so often tearing my hair out and from the little I've read at least I can take comfort from not being alone.

Try to look at it from their point of view too. They have a resentful stressed out mum who is constantly on their back about something. They probably feel quite stressed out themselves but because they're children they're not able to articulate that - they react by shutting down and not doing basic tasks or by fighting with each other.

I find being "mothered" intensely irritating and if someone is constantly on at me to do something my reaction is not to do it at all. My mum learned this early on and backed off completely which I am eternally grateful for. In fact, when we were teenagers she pretty much let us fend for ourselves (apart from feeding us and giving us money) and we were by far the best behaved teenagers that I knew. I think it was because we had control over our lives and had a sense of purpose in being organised.

You mother your oldest two a lot but resent it and they know that. Having someone do things begrudgingly for you and then make you feel bad about it is terrible. Stop.

I understand teh idea of having in your head how you want your family and DC to be. But I think this just puts a lot of pressure on you.

I tend with my 4 to have in my head how much worse it could be. For example, police at the door, DD pregnant at 12, going to court with DC, asbo's, etc. Just to remind myself how much worse it could be and that although you want things to be better, it could be much much worse.

Also don't get too stressed about swearing or even hitting your Dc once in a blue moon. You are human.

Poor you

I have been there many times (and still am from time to time). It's the relentlessness of it that gets to you - when they are all being as unhelpful as possible at the same time.

Yours are a bit younger than mine and I have to say that for the last year or so things have more or less improved. The older 2 are much easier in terms of looking after themselves and not needing me to do much for them now. And they take responsibility for chores - mainly looking after the dog and cats but also set tasks that we allocated them in return for their pocket money.

Something I found that does help is the payment of small amts of money for tasks - even something like getting their shoes on before a certain times earns them 5p, brushing their teeth when told to earns another. Working up to 'be ready to go out of the door at 8.30' and you'll earn 10p. No big payments and nothing at all for not doing it properly when they are told. The whole point is to make sure they take some of the stress away from you by learning to take charge of certain things themselves.

It's my youngest that is the main horror now, self-centred, easily distracted, unable to foresee consequences and outraged when they befall him! - but lovely, funny, interesting etc etc. I suspect that he has been spoiled rotten TBH - when I think back to what I expected from my older DS at that age I know he has been spoonfed a lot Beware of that trap re your LO ! He might be the only thing keeping you sane now but he may well be the thing driving you mad in 5 years time

BTW re depression. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that sheer exhaustion and frustration is the same as depression. It isn't. IMO GPs can't wait to give you ads when you go to see them! And sometimes tiredness, frustration and irritation are the correct valid responses to your life. ADs will make you feel 'better' but it's like applying sticking plaster to a bruise - no need for it, it may hide the bruise but it would have gone away on it's own anyway.

Sorry that was such an essay. It's a subject close to my heart.

This is a brilliant thread and so useful. I have 9 yr old twins and feel I could write your post most some days OP. Lots of well thought out and carefully written replies.

MN at its best .

Oh and I agree with leaving them to experience the 'natural' consequences of their failures. DS2 for example put on underpants under his trousers on monday morning instead of swimming trunks. As usual i put clean pants and a towel in his bag for him to change into after the lesson. He therefore had no pants and no swim! It's all to easy to forget that no schools beat kids or shut them in coal cellars when they do things wrong Leaving them to learn the hard way might upset them but they won't die.

Ditto forgotten lunch boxes, PE kits, homework. It's taken me years to get out of the habit of 'making things right' when it wasn't reallly my job to do.

My friend has 4 all of whom misbehave, although 90% of the poor behaviour is instigated by 1 child and the others copy.
Get the children on their own and 2 are quite lovely, one is a bit challenging and one makes you want to scream endlessly.

I agree with those who say make time for yourself. Your children have twigged that they never actually suffer much and they can ignore screaming, and as their mum, you are never actually going to do anything that bad to them as you love them.
You also need to work on them individually, not as a group.

So you need to shift their perception...at the moment you are suffering and they are shrugging it off.

I recommend a short break for yourself with the little one. Leave the others fending for themselves and taking the consequences.

Totally agree Ormirian! I think it is a more appropriate way of dealing with things when children are older and takes the stress of you of having to nag and punish your children.

I'm not saying its always easy to do, but I think it is a good learning experience for DC's.

Miggsie - Agree with most of your post. But you can't leave DC this young alone while OP goes on a weekend break with her toddler!

Someone mentioned the Nurturing Programme earlier - I did it last year at school and it really did help. At first I was worried that it was for 'bad' parents and that I was admitting I couldn't cope, but in fact I met some lovely mums there and we still meet up for and a moan about our DCs regularly. We learned lots of useful tools to deal with all types of behaviour.

It wasn't as 'airy fairy' as it sounds either - Nurturing isn't always about concealing how annoyed you are by being lovely to DCs - its about finding ways to deal with their (and your) behaviour more effectively so that it will change and make you all happier. You should definitely try and find a course or suggest it to someone relevant at school.

The one line that sticks in my head is "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got" - simple but so true. x

Re: the toilet thing, when my DCs kept peeing on the floor and leaving it unflushed I was so tempted to just leave it to get worse, but then they would have no respect for their home and surroundings.

It worked best when I cleaned it thoroughly then downloaded some of those charts that they have on public toilet doors saying "This toilet was cleaned at xx by 'mum'. " with little boxes to tick when they had flushed/wiped/hand-washed/toothbrushed etc. If anyone's column wasn't filled up at the end of the day they had to wipe round the toilet!

Trouble is I just couldn't leave the area around the loo messy as it would make me miserable. If I know who the culprit is I will always make them clean it up with loo roll and stand over them whilst they do it.

It's probably been said already but I would take the 2 year old away for a weekend and leave them to it.

Shotuing and punishing doesn't work so I would ignore all 3 of them when I got back. Throw their mess on their bedroom floor if they won't clean it. Serve up their dinner without speaking to them and if they say it's disgusting I would take throw it in the bin and give them nothing else until the next meal.

If they want their mum back the way she was, they can behave.

jajas - Fair enough. But I think it is easier if you have as few things like this as possible where you have to stand over them and make them do it. I understand that you may have to with some things, but if you do it all the time it makes your life very stressed and difficult.

Some great advice here, especially from amicissima and love the 'bored policeman' idea from Scootergrrrl

I often try to channel my inner teacher, picture a teacher that I think is firm but fair & try & act similar.

I only have one DS (lightweight) but at times I turn into such a shouty mum & that is just not how I want to be.

One of our big issues has always been mealtimes and I just have to keep telling myself "my job is to provide good food, not to make him eat it".

Good to read that this thread is helping you OP, hope things improve for you.