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AIBU?

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Original poster

To have no sympathy for the burglar

758 replies

Mitmoo · 19/09/2011 09:10

Another burglar has been stabbed to death when he broke into a businessman's home. His wife and child were returning to the property. The details are very scant at the moment as it is early day.

But the burglars who were stabbed robbing a shop, and an edlerly shopkeeper killed one of them, he was not prosecuted. I think that's right.

It's on R5Live now being debated after another burglar was killed at the weekend.

Personally I think home burglars should take getting stabbed as a occupational hazard. I have no sympathy for them.

OP posts:
Animation · 19/09/2011 12:19

"I have no sympathy for the burglar, he deserved what he got, because he was stabbed with his own knife."

I didn't know that - that the burglar was stabbed with his own knife.

Well if the burglar was wielding a knife around - then got stabbed with it -that doesn't seem like murder to me!

I think it's really wrong how this story was reported as murder.

FreudianSlipper · 19/09/2011 12:21

i never said it was ok for him to enter his property, i never said it was wrong to defend yourself what i said is that it cannot become acceptable to kill someone for it even if it is self defence there needs to be an investigation not just shrug it off and say well we all have the right to protect our homes, we do but not to the kill another human being for entering our home

i strongly disagree with the death penalty the only time i agree with violence is in self defence and if this leads to a death it has to be fully investigated and for me protecting your home and possessions is not a good enough reason to be able to take another persons life

spookshowangellovesit · 19/09/2011 12:23

ahhhh so we have double standards now, a drug addict teenager "taking his chances to survive" would deserve sympathy if they attacked you with a knife? but this man does not. is it the extra information that illicits the sympathy or his age. once we find more about the dead man will there be out crys of he didnt have a chance in life etc, his dad beat him.

DuelingFanjo · 19/09/2011 12:25

I don't know. Stabbing someone to death seems very extreme. Would have to know how many times he was stabbed and what force he was using (the burglar) before commenting but I can't imagine sticking a knife into someone more than once.

Minus273 · 19/09/2011 12:28

For all we know at the moment the burgler could have fallen on his own knife during a struggle with the home owner.

Animation · 19/09/2011 12:29

Something not right about all this though - even the relatives putting flowers outside this house doesn'r seem right to me. Confused

Lisatheonewhoeatsdrytoast · 19/09/2011 12:32

YANBU!!

If you choose to enter someone else's home, threaten their security and their families, then you deserve all you get!!
If you don't want to risk injury or death, then don't bloody enter someone else's property uninvited!!!

I hate when papers print sob stories of the robber, FFS!

altinkum · 19/09/2011 12:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fanjobanjowanjo · 19/09/2011 12:36

The flowers outside the house are a bit sick if you ask me.

slavetofilofax · 19/09/2011 12:37

Animation - I don't know for certain that it was his own knife, someone else on this thread said it, so I guessed it must be true Wink

Spookshow - it doesn't really make a difference to me whether this was an abused, drug addicted teenager, or a peadiatric consultant. If they get killed in the course of burgling someones house, they deserve whatever they get. I was responding more to an earlier post where someone had been mugged and then ended up feeling sorry for her mugger because she realised he was very young and actually had a pretty shit life.

I think in that situation, I would not feel sympathy for the dead burglar, but I would feel sad that a life had turned out that way in the first place.

spookshowangellovesit · 19/09/2011 12:39

that was me slave

TotemPole · 19/09/2011 12:40

DuelingFanjo, according to the article in the Guardian, the house holder dialled 999.

Two knives were recovered at the scene. It says that the alleged burglars pulled at least one knife.

It is also possible that the second knife belongs to the property. If that's the case, did he answer the door holding a knife? It sound like the struggle took place in the door way. They tried to force their way in, no mention that they succeeded.

TotemPole · 19/09/2011 12:45

DuelingFanjo, sorry that wasn't clear. What I mean is, he tried to get help for the person he'd stabbed. Possibly a flurry of action in self defence, then phoning to get help when it had calmed down.

mayorquimby · 19/09/2011 12:49

"I'm all for self defence, but not when it involves murder"

It's not murder if it's self-defence.

pigletmania · 19/09/2011 12:51

Algonkin when confronted by someone threatening yourife you have to react quickly you don't have time, your number 1 priority is your life and that of your families not a criminal breaking into your homehurti g your family and stealing your things

pigletmania · 19/09/2011 12:55

It's self defence not murder

CogitoErgoSometimes · 19/09/2011 12:56

"we all have the right to protect our homes, we do but not to the kill another human being for entering our home"

You're deliberately overlooking the question of 'intent'. I'm sure this householder didn't wake up that morning intending to kill a man. The rules around self-defence allows for things like instinct, self-preservation, panic, fear.... and for the consequences to be varied as a result. Breaking into a home with a weapon, on the other hand, is an intentional act.

We do not have the right to kill anyone, whether they in our home or not. If we have successfully disabled someone, we don't have the right to bludgeon them to death just because we feel like it. But if, in the process of defending ourselves, someone dies.... that's always been legitimate.

aldiwhore · 19/09/2011 12:59

Whilst I don't believe a burglar deserves to DIE, I also think that if they're armed, are threatening (entering a home uninvited is threatening in itself) and if the owner/resident of the house lashes out in fear and defence of either themselves, their children, whoever, and the burglar dies.... hard cheese.

BelieveInPink · 19/09/2011 13:05

Something odd for a start as this altercation looks like it took place on the driveway, before they'd even entered the home. It could be that this was a feud gone wrong, anything really. In these circumstances I can see why he's been charged already pending investigation.

Ever since Mr Cameron delightfully announced the changes with regards to "butlers" I have been uncomfortable. Now it is deemed acceptable to kill another person; to take another life. The waters become muddy and we will find more and more of these events taking place. My heart says "brilliant, maybe this will be a deterrent to burglars and if they know people in their own homes can kill them and not be jailed. My head says this is a mistake to give the green light to take another life.

As others have said, if someone went for one of my children, or myself or my husband, I would protect them all I could, even if it meant taking a butler's life. (Although the thought of stabbing someone, or whacking someone over the head...could I do it? Of sound mind, no. If my kids were going to be harmed? Probably. I wouldn't feel the need to stab someone that came into my home, took what they could and then attempted to leave before I killed them. I have been burgled before, and I still stand by it...if they were there for goods and not to harm me, I would let them on their way.

Animation · 19/09/2011 13:07

I think I've got an issue with perpetrators being turned around as being the victim. Even these flowers outside the house make this perpetrator look like the victim.

maypole1 · 19/09/2011 13:12

If he wasn't their he would not have been stabbed, and it was nice of his side kick to run off if was the hime ower who called for help

Their was a case a while back were a couple were broken into and the guy was made to watch wile they raped his girlfriend and they cut him and poured bleach in the wounds

These people should only be shown contempt and the fact the man has been arrested is outrageous I mean they didn't fall into his front room did they.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 19/09/2011 13:12

Cameron's statement was to counteract the widespread misconception, post the Tony Martin case, that ordinary householders weren't allowed to defend themselves. The Martin case was a particular set of circumstances that didn't meet the test for self-defence but which could have done if it had been better managed. Newspapers didn't bother explaining this but simply ran 'we're not safe in our own homes!!!!' headlines. The law has not changed in the slightest either before or after Cameron's statement.

maypole1 · 19/09/2011 13:13

BelieveInPink waters are clear from were I am if you don't want to be stabbed stay the fuck at home if you chance your arm you might loose simples

mayorquimby · 19/09/2011 13:14

exactly cogito

MIFLAW · 19/09/2011 13:19

"I also agree with if you shoot or attack while the burglar is running away then that's not reasonable force but it's not murder either." Can you explain how shooting someone in the back - therefore, someone who can in no way be construed as threatening to attack you - is not murder?

Can you also, in the interests of putting some parameters in place, sketch out which items of property you feel are worth more than a human life?

I mean, I can understand that sometimes people get scared and lash out and it results in death. But there seem to be a lot of voices on here essentially saying that the defence of property - i.e. things - are worth more than the life of a person. Burglary is a crime but it is not in itself rape, ABH, GBH or murder. I would also suggest that, in cases where the burglar has a partner, a mother, a father or children, those people perhaps will NOT be convinced by the logic, "ah, well, he shouldn't go robbing if he doesn't want to get stabbed to death."

Just my own thoughts.