To have no sympathy for the burglar

[Mitmoo]

Another burglar has been stabbed to death when he broke into a businessman's home. His wife and child were returning to the property. The details are very scant at the moment as it is early day.

But the burglars who were stabbed robbing a shop, and an edlerly shopkeeper killed one of them, he was not prosecuted. I think that's right.

It's on R5Live now being debated after another burglar was killed at the weekend.

Personally I think home burglars should take getting stabbed as a occupational hazard. I have no sympathy for them.

FWIW, I'm not happy/smug that he's dead. For all we know, he could have been "just doing this one last job" then going straight because he wanted to be a good dad or whatever. He could have been a desperate man. He could have this, he could have that. We don't know the ins and outs.

However, I just can't get all hand-wringey over this one, sorry. He might have been those things that I said above, but he still took a risk and unfortunately for him, he got the raw end of the deal.

You can spot a question by the '?' at the end of it.

Obviously not covered in 'your book'

But thanks for the lovely compliments. kiss kiss

I'm not sorry one jot that maybe hundreds of innocent people may well be spared him entering their homes with a knife.

"not getting all that wound-up over it when a risk that comes with the turf gets realised."

Yes, again the risk, responsibility and accountability remain with the burglar even though he ended up dead.

Jilly "innocent people" my arse... They are all "violent homeowners", dontcha remember?

Bupcakes

It's not about getting hand-wringy.

It's about not gloating over a man dying.

People on this thread have been expressing glee about a death and, when challenged, defending it with the most arrant shite. My recent favourite - "well, what about the British Army then?"

The British Army is sanctioned by the Crown to defend the country's interests - typically against organised armed forces or guerrillas. They are trained, accountable and follow a recognised chain of command.

Now, me personally, I still think that there is something a little bit odd about someone who says, "job doing what? Killing people? Yeah, count me in." But, nonetheless, it is what it is.

This case is about a civilian who either answered his door with a knife of his own, or murdered some daft bastard in a scuffle.

No comparison at all, either morally or factually.

I am not one for bringing back hangoing and flogging, but a "bring back a sense of shame and humilty" thing might do wonders for crime stats.

I didn't say his parents werre to blame, I would personally feel very ashamed to have a son as a burglar dead of not and would be hiding my face at home.

Loads of people now operate at top volume, kick off, do what they want with no sense of embarrassment. I like a bit of humilty myself and this bloke is not a "murder victim" until pre-meditation has been proven.

"that is known as distraction burglary "

No it's not. Distraction burglary is where the offender pretends to be doing something like reading a water meter and then burgles you. Hence the phrase distraction.

Have only read op post but I Agee with them I have no sympathy for a person trying to break into a house armed with a knife when there is or could be a family in there, occupational hazard for the burglar as far ad I'm concerned!

"Actually , I would say if you don't feel something akin to hatred for scum that do this to innocent people, the old, children, women, then you are morally bankrupt, not the other way round."

No, not morally bankrupt. Just a slightly more grown-up set of emotional responses. I can despise what he did for a living without thinking he deserved to die.

I'm not glad he's dead I just feel no sympathy for him (if the facts thus far are accurate). This doesn't mean I don't think the man who stabbed him shouldn't be investigated or prosecuted if the circumstances dictate.
It's the same as when I hear of yet another Dublin based gang land killing, I'm not glad that it has happened and I would most certainly want whoever committed the crime brought to justice, but I feel no sympathy for the individual who has died as a result of their criminal activities.
And once again you could claim the world is better off without the person, that doesn't mean you are happy he has died or rejoicing (although I accept many may be), there are plenty of people who the world would be better off without in my opinion, that does not mean that I would justify them being killed or be happy that they have died., just not sad or sympathetic.

"this bloke is not a "murder victim" until pre-meditation has been proven."

No - but he is dead, whatever gets proven subsequently.

Sorry for typos. Getting a bit too emotionally invested in this now.

" Daft bastard"?

Jesus MIFLAW you make him sound like some loveable scalliwag.

The guy was a known criminal. He was carrying a fucking knife and tried to enter a man's home despite him actually standing there!

I think most people are not celebrating that he is dead. Just supporting the victim against those who seem to want to make him the criminal.

I personally though am happy that he is dead. Not ecstatic exactly, but it seems like a good outcome to me. If we knew all the names of the people who now won't be burgled by him then we could have a street party.

MIFLAW feel free to hate me for it, but not too much as if you look deep enough it might be someone else's fault/something to do with my childhood/society.

no need for premeditation

"MIFLAW feel free to hate me for it, but not too much as if you look deep enough it might be someone else's fault/something to do with my childhood/society."

Although I initially laughed at your post (love a bit of sarcasm, me) you're actually onto something there...

So if we are to look for the reasons for why some div ends up robbing as a profession, why don't we look for the reasons for why some posters are more vociferous in their approval in what the homeowner did? Home burgled as a child and left scarred by it, maybe? Mugged on the way home once? I got mugged once. Well I say mugged, he tried to mug me but he went away with nothing more than a split lip (tip to would-be muggers: don't try and mug people who are sober, when you are paralytic and who weigh in at about three stone more than you). It didn't affect me too much because I didn't feel that threatened. However, had it been a different set of circumstances, it could have affected me in all sorts of ways. I imagine if I'd been petrified at the hands of one of these idiots, I might feel a bit gleeful when one of them gets their come-uppance...

If no pre-meditation then it is manslaughter.

I doubt household would have had time to plan a murder if, as reported, the burglar was coming at him into his home with a knife. If that can be proven then the burglar will not be a victim of murder.

householder ffs

"This case is about a civilian who either answered his door with a knife of his own, or murdered some daft bastard in a scuffle."

MILFLAW - I find it hard to believe that you have been at the receiving end of a knife pointed at you - when use comfy euphanisms to minimise this guys experience, and refer to what happened as 'murder'.

PMSL at JillySnooper "loveable scalliwag".

Yes, he popped in for a spot of knife point burglary after an afternoon in Mr Kippling's orchard scrumping apples, the rogue!

"MIFLAW feel free to hate me for it, but not too much as if you look deep enough it might be someone else's fault/something to do with my childhood/society."

Picking the wrong man there, I'm afraid, which is a shame as it's got a real Wildean touch of zest and originaility about it.

I have not said anywhere that it wasn't his fault, that it was down to society, whatever.

What I have suggested, quite realistically, I think, is that there were more desirable outcomes than a man's death. Perhaps he could have been trained to do something useful. Perhaps he had possessions that could have been sold to compensate the victim. Perhaps, he could have been tried by a court and sent to prison, which is, after all, why we have courts and prisons.

"Oh, but prison's expensive," is the knee jerk reaction. True enough, it is. But what alternative does a civilised society have? I mean, if it's such a good thing that he died - cost-effective, clean etc - why not make it law? Why not execute thieves as a matter of course? Why stop at thieves? What about drunk drivers, whether or not they actually hit anyone? Flashers? Forgers? Tax evaders?

So there you are. That's what I think. This man was a criminal. But what did he actually do? He attempted to break into another man's home. He was carrying a knife but there is no evidence he used it or even planned to use it for anything except to scare someone. The man was alone there. The burglar did not get far enough to steal anything. Instead, he got stabbed - it is not clear whether by accident or by design - and he died. Probably in pain, probably afraid, probably bitterly regretting ever going on this job. In the mean time, another man also has his life on his conscience.

Looking at it soberly, is this really the best outcome all round that we could have wished for?

I refuse to agree that his death was a cause for rejoicing.

And, by daft bastard, it was in no way my intention to suggest that he was not a bad man. However, he was no criminal mastermind either, or he'd have planned his break-in a bit better. At least part of the reason he ended up dead was because he was a fucking idiot. Again, I do not see the death of an idiot as cause for celebration.

A clip around the ear by the local bobby would have sorted him out and no mistake.

I don't think I have referred anywhere to the criminal's death as "murder". That is for the courts to decide, and it won't be on the basis of vigilante shite, but on the basis of facts.

What "comfy euphemisms" have I used?