To have no sympathy for the burglar

[Mitmoo]

Another burglar has been stabbed to death when he broke into a businessman's home. His wife and child were returning to the property. The details are very scant at the moment as it is early day.

But the burglars who were stabbed robbing a shop, and an edlerly shopkeeper killed one of them, he was not prosecuted. I think that's right.

It's on R5Live now being debated after another burglar was killed at the weekend.

Personally I think home burglars should take getting stabbed as a occupational hazard. I have no sympathy for them.

pippi makes a good point.

answering the door to the burglars? never heard of a burglar who wanted to advertise his/her arrival by knocking...

some may say the burglars were testing to see if anyone was in, but if that was the case when the door was in fact opened surely they would've said 'sorry mate, wrong house and bolted' ??

"Yet die he did, and no one is the better off for it. Not him; not his family; and certainly not the man who was unlucky enough to kill him"

Ooh dear - you're coming across a bit santimonious now!

No one's saying thank God the guy's dead.

More - it's perfectly understandable that this happened.

"I can easily see how and why this happened." so can I.

This thread, though, is apparently not about that. It is about a refusal to feel any sympathy or even to acknowledge that this is not a black-and-white incident.

I HAVE taken the facts into consideration. I would not be mug enough to open the door at night without checking who was behind it - and, if I was alone in the house and I did not get stabbed immediately, I would GET OUT OF THE WAY AND HOPE because, frankly, taking someone on if they're armed and you're not is a hiding to nothing. either you get killed yourself; or, as here, you end up in the shit until the police can decide whether you used reasonable force. Or I would freeze with fear, which would amount to the same thing.

The only way I, personally, would be in a position to stab an intruder would be if I had come to the door carrying a knife. Which, I suggest, is NOT reasonable.

It's not uncommon for people to knock on a door,sometimes pretending to be a salesman,and then to force entry/barge in when the homeowner opens the door. This technique was featured on Crimewatch some months ago,when there was a spate of them in and around a village.

Of course, as others have said, there could be more to this than meets the eye...

I think there must be, what the hell kind of burglars knock on your front door??

Even ones that need the homeowner to open safe/find loot would just barge in I would have thought?

It sounds to me more like they are aquaintances who went to the house to try to sort something out/argue and it all got out of hand, especially as it seems that the homeowner might have answered the door with a knife.

"No one's saying thank God the guy's dead." yes they are. Look further up the thread. Plenty of people come pretty close to saying exactly that.

or what bupcakes said

Someone on this morning said that this man has lost his life he is some mothers son.

Where was his bloody mother when she should have been teaching him right from wrong and breaking into someones house is wrong!!

If someone broke into my house I would stab them no two words about it!! and I would scream thats fro breaking into my house you little f*er!!!

Onager, I agree entirely. Any motivation to see the story behind the crime, for me, is motivated by trying to prevent it reoccurring. If a crime is committed, justice has To be done. That does mean that, in this case, the householder had to be arrested and the crime investigated.

Just because the 'scum' burglar was the one to lose his life doesn't change the law. What happened was a tragedy because a life was lost, irrespective of the apparent value placed on it.

Cannot imagine the horror of causing someone's death, particularly with it occurring in your own home. I'm sure the homeowner will never recover.

"I have never heard of a burglar that knocks on your door in the early evening so this makes me think there is more to this story"

I have. We had a spate of this exact scenario recently on the division I work in. There was a group of professional burglars preying on the vulnerable. They knocked on the door, then assaulted them when they opened the door and barged through to steal their stuff. They nearly killed one old man.

"Therefore, I would have zero sympathy for this burglar and feel that it is no loss to society."

"The world is an infinitely better place when some of these so called human beings have left it."

"I've even pondered how I would feel if it was my son, stabbed to death whilst burglarising and still feel it's tough titty."

"Occupational hazrd - LOL, funny!"

All direct quotes just from page one of this thread.

No one's saying thank God he's dead? looks like it to me.

That ^^ opinion is the one I'm arguing against.

Oops (stupid slow typing) meant, AandK.

MIFLAW on the other hand, I agree with entirely.

"Where was his bloody mother when she should have been teaching him right from wrong and breaking into someones house is wrong!!"

Perhaps, as an adult, he had stopped doing what mummy told him?

Doesn't make him any less her son.

MIFLAW, I too refuse to glorify the death of an idiot, but the legal process, if self defence is proven, will serve us well. This man was not just an idiot: there are plenty of dicks around, most of whom don't burgle. Burgling whilst armed with a knife is not a definition of a "nice man".

As for the family, his parents can hardly hold their heads up high and tell us all what a lovely up bringing they gave him.

I am against the death penalty, but please, let us stop calling the burglar a "murder victim" until pre-meditation has been proven in court.

Why can the burglars family not claim to have given him a good upbringing?

Have you got access to information no one else has?

If we are playing, make up facts to support my viewpoint, Tell me and I'll join in.

This isn't a creative writing exercise.

If someone broke into my house I would stab them no two words about it!! and I would scream thats fro breaking into my house you little f*er!!!

Probably best not to mention that detail in court AandK.

But I'm sure you wouldn't because you sound like the sort of person who thinks things through carefully.

Here's a recent incident of a burglar knocking on a door then barging in,and I found several more cases with a quick Google. It's far from uncommon.

Doesn't make him any less her son

No it doesn't. But she obviously failed to teach her child right from wrong. She raised this person who is capable of burglary.

If I knew my son was out breaking the law, I'd chain him up and be on teh phone to the police constantly. And if he got killed and people started laying flowers at is victims house, I'd go down there myself and remove them, because I would be so ashamed.

I think it entirely possible that these two might have been "casing" the house for some time, seen only the woman and child coming and going. They tooled themselves up to threaten her to gain access and nick her stuff knowing she would be too frightened to fight back. What they weren't expecting was to find a man opening the door, perfectly willing to defend his house and try to prevent his wife and child returning to find two knife-wielding burglars ransacking their home and him possibly dead on the floor. They were surprised, took out their weapons and ended up in a scuffle. The homeowner managed to get hold of the knife and stabbed at the bloke who ended up dead instinctively.

I would like to see how some on this 9 o'clock jury would react in similar circumstances.

MIFLAW - I don't read it that folk are wanting to dance on his grave. There just isn't a lot of sympathy for a knife wielding aggravated burglar who ended up dead.

OhdearNigel that's what I would guess happened, if I had to. The husband, apparently, works away a lot. They may have cased the joint for a few weeks whilst he had been away, not realised he had returned and got more than they bargained for when he opened the door. I said it earlier in the thread; they expected to meet a path of least resistance i.e the wife or son.

I have. We had a spate of this exact scenario recently on the division I work in. There was a group of professional burglars preying on the vulnerable. They knocked on the door, then assaulted them when they opened the door and barged through to steal their stuff. They nearly killed one old man.

That is different though, that is known as distraction burglary and is usually only practised on the elderly/disabled/infirm.

This case seems, to me, to be totally different from that.

People posting things like scum of the earth, glad he's dead and glorifying his death is just wrong. I'm sure we all know that it's incomprehensible for us to burgle some else's house but it doesn't mean we should revel in a man's death.

All this, scum, tough titty type commenting just sounds like typical Daily Hate reader commenst that Mumsnetters usually abhor.

Anything is entirely possible. I guess that's why the police are looking into it.

If your offspring was a burglar, irrespective of whether he was dead or alive, would you be proclaiming to the world what a smashing upbringing you gave him LadyGooGoo?

If you are the type of person who can go and place flowers at the scene of your son's latest crime, instead of hiding at home, you sure don't have a sense of decency and therefore are hardly likely to have inbued your child with goodness.