are Christians short on logical abilities? and

[mummyonvalium]

Do atheists have a superior logic?

I am not prone to thinking that there are fairies at the bottom of the garden. However, I believe in God because:-
a) I believe that the universe is too complex for there to be nothing else to it other than a complete void of nothingness.

b) human beings are really complex creatures and I struggle to believe that we just "evolved" this way.

I understand the scientific view point really well - that you should only believe what you know to be true for a fact, so I am not looking to be reminded of this. But the above feelings always bring me back to essentially what is a Christian faith.

Do atheists ever look at the world around them and question it, the same way a person who has faith does? How would the atheist respond to the feelings I have, that actually there is just something so much bigger than us, that is actually almost incomprehensible?

I am reasonably logical and have a first class hons from a mid-range uni. I know one person who is a Christian who has a PHD in Maths and loads of other really bright, interesting Christians. We are obviously not all thick or short on logical abilities. Why do atheists think bright and erudite people believe in God and choose to be a Christian?

Discuss.

It's unlikely there is anything about religious belief that causes your IQ level to drop, or that people of low IQ are more inclined to religious belief. But if, in society, the norm is to teach people do doubt (which we do, in a broadly scientific way), it's likely intelligent people will do so. IMO.

Completely agree with the social conditioning bit. As stated above, I absolutely do not wish to make any statement re. the subject matter - my point was basically that the argument "some bright people are christians, therefore adherence to christianity is the intelligent stance" was fallacious.

I definitely do not think that religion makes your IQ drop - not so sure about the second part, though. I could imagine that people are more drawn to explanations that they are capable of intellectually comprehending over those that sound like complete gobbledok to them. However, I have absolutely zero evidence for this and, as said, am really quite agnostic about it.

Yes I know that Cocoflower. In my view it is often linked to something that has happened in their life as an adult. People don't like to think of themselves as having no real meaning in the world, religion is a comfort to many, it makes you feel important.

Ignore my post I read it wrong! Tired eyes.

How did you misread it? Thought your answer made sense with the question tbh!

Just as atheism is a comfort too many.

How does it comfort you then coco? Not sure it does me,although I am!

What comfort me- religion or atheisim?

I suppose the idea of not being subject to eternal damnation for past misdemeanours is quite comforting though...

atheism, at least that'swhat I thought you meant.

eekamouse Actually the Brits pushed the Palestinians (and Jews and everyone else) off the land, having owned the area and completely cocked up the transfer to the State of Israel/Jordan spectacularly due to pressure from the Americans to get it finished. Similar to the issues of India/Pakistan over Kashmir. If the transfer had been done properly or rather than hacking bits of land randomly because of some drive to separate people by background and they had a joint government to start with the situation would be very different.

Atheism never comforted me- I was always searching... the "God-shaped" hole as people call it.

However my friend I have know for over a decade finds atheisim comforting to her- she feels it makes her more in control of her life, she can do as she wishes with no 'punishment', she has no-one to answer too or worship and of course no worries about the afterlife...

NotJust, yes, I know, that's true, but then we stupidly just handed Israel on a plate without thinking of asking the Palestinians if it was ok with them. I know it was the Brits' fault initially, but then the Jews had to keep pushing and pushing.

NotADude - sure, I think we're agreeing ... just wanted to make the point because it always strikes me as slightly odd that lots of people say Christians are illogical when medieval Christian theologians did a huge amount of the developing of logic from its classical roots. That phrase about 'standing on the shoulders of giants and sneering' comes to mind, for me anyhow.

There is no God....

Eekamouse.. there are evil people in every religion. It is more to do with the country that these people are in (stonings, executions etc) than the religion itself.

There are millions of muslims over the world who do not behave in that way, or condone it as a normal way of behaviour.

The people in the countries who behave in a barbaric way in the name of religion are not representative of the religion in its entirety.

Some of the ones in England did a pretty good job of murdering people on 7/7.

Yes, eeka, and some of the Crusaders did a much, much better job of slaughtering pretty much anything jewish and muslim that dared soil the holy city of Jerusalem. Not to mention some of the rather creepy christian fundamentalist stuff that one hears went on during the preparations for the invasion of Iraq. GWB babbling about Gog and Magog to Chirac and holding prayer meetings with his Tonyness.

My point is not that islam is right - I wouldn't be an atheist if I thought it was. I am arguing that - especially in the light of our colonial history etc. - there's a bit of an issue with a lot of people intensely disliking the religious convictions of brownish people whilst not saying anything about our head of state also being the head of the CofE and about religious leaders in the House of Lords etc.

I am also majorly concerned about how some racists and islamophobes basically hijack some very legitimate issues and will abuse atheism, feminism, tolerance etc. as some sort of fig leaves to paint their despicable ideology in a more favourable light.

What makes you think I'm not brown myself? I am, as it happens, and agree that it's ridiculous that religious leaders are in the House of Lords.

btw, what's Gog and Magog????? Sounds like something from Thomas the Tank Engine

You don't have to be a certain 'colour' to be certain religions

Gog and Magog. The better explanation of it in the GWB sense, though, you will find if you look through websites by and for apocalyptic christians. It's really big in their apocalyptic end of the world thinking.

FWIW, I'm not arguing that people who dislike islam are necessarily racist. I do think that there are some really ugly racist types that seek to legitimise their positions by basically concentrating on religion because even they have twigged on to the fact that it's easier to get away with. The EDL and Geert Wilders types being classical examples. Which does make it a bit difficult at times to voice opposition without inadvertently providing ammunition to that type of person.

I'm finding this incredibly difficult for myself. There's no way that I wish to be associated with this type of person in any way. On the other hand, I am not actually inclined to constantly defend islam because as an atheist I quite simply think it's absurd.

Well, I don't think of myself as being racist, seeing as I'm black and all.. I am anti religion though, in all it's guises.

thanks for the link

Also, eeka, don't look too far into the Gog and Magog thing. I read further up that you seem to be more or less Palestinian friendly. If so, it's bound to leave you frothing at the mouth. FWIW, been there, done that, got the t-shirt (which is still stained with froth).

its not it's

And, just for the record: I'm not of the opinion that anyoe here has said anything racist. :)