are Christians short on logical abilities? and

[mummyonvalium]

Do atheists have a superior logic?

I am not prone to thinking that there are fairies at the bottom of the garden. However, I believe in God because:-
a) I believe that the universe is too complex for there to be nothing else to it other than a complete void of nothingness.

b) human beings are really complex creatures and I struggle to believe that we just "evolved" this way.

I understand the scientific view point really well - that you should only believe what you know to be true for a fact, so I am not looking to be reminded of this. But the above feelings always bring me back to essentially what is a Christian faith.

Do atheists ever look at the world around them and question it, the same way a person who has faith does? How would the atheist respond to the feelings I have, that actually there is just something so much bigger than us, that is actually almost incomprehensible?

I am reasonably logical and have a first class hons from a mid-range uni. I know one person who is a Christian who has a PHD in Maths and loads of other really bright, interesting Christians. We are obviously not all thick or short on logical abilities. Why do atheists think bright and erudite people believe in God and choose to be a Christian?

Discuss.

Interesting bit of background notadude.

Who do you mean by 'we'?

So, eeka, your argument is basically that christians are better than muslims because they're not very strict about what it says in the holy scriptures of christianity.

As an atheist I find this fascinating.

I find it fascinating too!

haven't read the thread but I love the way you have managed to shoehorn the fact you got a first into your OP. Like it means your opinion is more valid somehow?

No, I think all religion is ludicrous, frankly.

I'm not sure how Muslims could have moved on in the last 2,000 years as their religion isn't actually that old. As Any Fule No.

So who did you mean by 'we' if you aren't Christian? Did you mean the british?

I had a toffee crisp before and feel sick. I hope this makes my posts more believable.

I didn't know that, linerunner, but I'm not versed in the ages of religions!

I think it's the other way around, not Christians short of logic, but atheists short of faith.

I'm an atheist from a Christian family, with no 'god shaped hole'. I do find it difficult to understand when some members of my family speak of talking to god the way I might talk about speaking to a friend. It's nothing to do with intelligence or logic, but a fundamental difference in the way that you see the world.

You're not that logical, if those are your reasons to believe in a god.

Have a cream egg. They are much more sick inducing!

I think Islam (aka some guy named Mohammed having a dream and writing down what Allah told him in said dream) started about 1500 years ago.

By "we" I mean we infidels.

So your argument is "problematic content of a religious nature is less problematic if it isn't strictly adhered to", then?

Now, that's not wrong, of course, but it also doesn't apply exclusively to religion. It's a bit of a truism in fact.

'Yes, some bright people are christians. Some bright people are also Muslims. However, there is a general negative correlation between education level and religiosity. More controversially, perhaps, some research has suggested a possible negative correlation between IQ and religiosity.'

This is heavily socially conditioned, however. In times past, the majority of people were religious and it wasn't found to be incompatible with high intelligence or education. It's unlikely there is anything about religious belief that causes your IQ level to drop, or that people of low IQ are more inclined to religious belief. But if, in society, the norm is to teach people do doubt (which we do, in a broadly scientific way), it's likely intelligent people will do so. IMO.

Science versus Christianity (or any religion) is a false dicotomy and faulty logic in and of itself.

OP, You don't seem to have a grasp of the scientific view point at all. Very very little is proven as fact - there are even questions surrounding things that most people think are sorted like gravity. Scientific 'facts' have been turned on their heads quite a few times by new advances and findings. Looking at the world as we can percieve it, questioning how things work, and trying to find answers is the main point of science, I think. Realizing we don't know everything, and that what is scientifically true today could be disproven tomorrow is part of the joy.

Realizing we don't know and can control very little is a part of science. It can also be a part of religious faith, for some faiths questioning and wrestling with it is practically a core tenet. I wrestle with my view point of the world regularly, I find it difficult to understand those who don't, however saying that either group is 'short on logical abilities' dismisses the vast differences in the people that make up those groups.

Lol at infidels. I suppose that may be accurate! I would argue that many infidels are worse than many Muslims though. I thought the Koran was generally a peaceful book! Much as I don't agree with religion, I suspect a healthy fear of an omnipotent being is conducive to a harmonious society. Although, on the other hand, religion is (or has been) a handy excuse for war.

Brave post!

Especially here.

Of course Athiests have a superior logic, we aren't hoodwinked or brow beaten into believing the unbelievable.

We dont drag our kids to church or foce religion on them we let them decide for themselves.

But then if you'd been brought up in a different place or time Fabby, your views would likely be massively different. You're a product of your upbringing, had you been brought up differently you would probably still believe your views to be superior to anyone with opposing views.

I have read parts of the Koran by opening it at random pages. I remember the first thing I read was that there is only one God, Allah, and all who do not believe in him should die by the sword.

Nice.

As would mine, btw, I'm under no illusions about that.

Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, eekamouse?

People do realise you can become religious for the first time as an adult, no?
Even if you have come from an atheist family... or does that not seem to compute?

Yes, I know the Old Testament is just as bad, which is why I think all religion is ludicrous, as I said upthread.

Sadly the world will be ruled by religion for a long time to come, with all the problems that brings, eg Catholic missionaries telling people in Africa not to use condoms, hence the rise in Aids, Jews forcibly pushing Palestinians off land they've owned for hundreds of years - the only religion I have any respect for at all is Buddhism.