To never, ever, ever be under same roof as SIL again. Ever.

[tittybangbang]

Yes, another SIL thread. Sorry. Please humour me. Please, at least one person read it and respond!

The letter I wanted to send db last week - knew I never would, but boy, did it feel good to get it all out!:

(Letter written after excruciating evening at my mums. We only ever see SIL at my mums when both families go round for a meal but this does happen at least once a month. Sometimes more often)

"I spoke to mum last night. Unsurprisingly she agreed with me that yesterday afternoon was pretty horrendous.

All three of my children behaved horribly yesterday. I'm sorry for that. I?ve got to tell you that what made it particularly distressing for me was that it was witnessed by SIL. I came home in tears with an ache in my chest of humiliation.

I suspect some of the behaviour was a response to them knowing that Aunty SIL has a strong antipathy towards them, and they were acting out in front of her because of this.

SIL must be aware that people, kids too - NOTICE when someone doesn?t like them. Not sure if she?s aware that that not making eye contact, never showing any interest in someone, or any warmth towards them, is generally perceived as hostile when it?s directed towards adults and children who happen to be part of your extended family and who you meet with regularly. And particularly when it's directed towards someone who has shown love and care for her children, and has always been friendly and interested.

Whatever ? it?s been very distressing to me over the years. I?ve cried over it a lot of times. I have got to the point now where there are things I can?t forget or forgive: SIL seeing me at mums for the first time after dc2?s birth, and not finding it in herself to even acknowledge that I?d had a baby. Not looking at him or commenting on him. Turning her face away when the rest of us were looking at him. Cringing when dc3 came near and pulling her dress away with a look of disgust in case he brushed against her.

She has never made a single attempt to engage my children in any sort of meaningful conversation. Never asked them a question. Never given them a spontaneous hug or taken an interest in anything that they?ve done. Never commented kindly on their personalities or their appearance. She just pretends they don't exist, to the point of not even looking at them even when they're in the same room as her.

Last week she made comments about why your dc shouldn?t have to share a classroom with children with special needs, specifically a child with aspergers (who she described as a 'disgusting little shit'). And dropped a comment into the conversation along the lines that the only saving grace as far as dc3 goes, is that, unlike her ?friend? whose child also has aspergers, I?m at least I?m not trying to make out that my autistic son is bright.

How could you possibly explain this degree of unkindness in a grown woman?

DD is 12 now, and she's beside herself with anger about how SIL behaves towards her. That's why when you come round with SIL you only now ever see dd's back as she walks out the door. She cried last time SIL came to our house because she felt so angry and upset. And over what? She's never said or done anything to SIL to upset her. She's always been polite to her. She's brilliant with your children - really loving and attentive. She can't understand why SIL appears to hate her, and neither can I.

And I don't want to have to think about it any more or deal with the stropping and crying from dd after you've gone.

Anyway ? what I want to say to you, and what I want you to communicate to SIL, is that I don?t want to see her again or want her to see my children. So future invitations - birthdays, Christmas, the usual family barbecues, I don't want her to come, all though of course you and the kids are still welcome. Actually I think she'll be relieved. Sorry if this is hard for you - I know it's going to upset you and put you in an awful position, but I think it's time you shared some of the responsibility for her behaviour and attitude. After all - in all these years you've stood by and watched her do it and pretended not to notice.

So there is is. Sorry."

Love dsis

If you can bear it - some history, have posted on this issue before....

here

Why does nobody pull her up on her behaviour as she does it? I never understand families who pander to one unpleasant individual, and don't make them aware far sooner that their actions are not going to be tolerated, even in an adult. I understand that this is easier said than done, but do you never laugh incredulously and say things like 'aren't you going to say hello to my children today, then?' or 'you're being very rude, is there something wrong?'. I just can't imagine taking it for so long.

Apologies if you have tried all sorts, or don't feel you are able to, but I think this is what I would have done.

But if it has got this bad, I reckon sending the letter would be very satisfying. What do your parents think?

I had one nice sister in law and one who I wouldnt piss on if she was on fire

Some people don't get on and rub each other up the wrong way.

Don't stress about it

Sometimes wifes/partners of siblings simply aren't nice but you cant ask your brother to ditch her because she annoyed you

Ignore her , blank her ........don't let her get to you

Why don't you sit her down alone and have a chat with her?

She might find it difficult to be around SN children, and you could perhaps help her with that? Not an excuse for bad behaviour, but may be a reason.

I think the best course of action is to talk to the woman, in a non agressive way, to discover the root of the problem. You can't cut yourself off and divide the family without at least trying.

"Why are you not protecting your DC's against this?"

The problem is that it's passive aggressive behaviour. She's not said anything nasty to the dc's. She infers things with me. She ignores the children. It's quite hard to pull someone up on this sort of behaviour.

Many, many years ago I shared a house with her, when we were both students on the same course. She decided to ignore me for a whole term. I mean completely blank me. Despite the fact it was only me, her and my brother (who she wasn't going out with at that point) living in this house.

When I confronted her - said 'have I done something to upset you, because you're not talking to me', she just kept repeating 'Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not ignoring you.' All said with a big smile on her face.

"She might find it difficult to be around SN children, and you could perhaps help her with that?"

She's a teacher!

My ds is very bright and sweet in many ways. He's also very beautiful and desperate to help if anyone needs bags lifting, pushchairs organising etc. Most people think he's quite appealing.

But not her.

When I confronted her - said 'have I done something to upset you, because you're not talking to me', she just kept repeating 'Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not ignoring you.' All said with a big smile on her face.

Oh God that reminds me of somebody I used to know who did eventually get a BPD diagnosis.

I think you should try to minimise contact as much as possible without sending the letter. Protect yourself and your kids. I only hope your DB and their children aren't getting this sort of treatment.

Just because she's a teacher doesn't mean she won't have a problem with certain SN.

Perhaps some of them have.

I was surprised to be the 'first' to call out my MIL over her behaviour. Originally all I wanted was a break from her, so that I could calm down a little, but she was unable to give me the space and so now we have reached the state where I can't imaging ever seeing or speaking to her again.

And I did wonder why nobody had ever done it earlier. There is a lot of complaining within the family about her behaviour, even from FIL.

And then I realised that many other people have reacted the same way as me, only they haven't been family and so have been more able to just walk away.

PIL's seem to be able to meet people easily, make friends quickly and then realise that their new friends are "stuck up" or "think they are too good for us" because these friends just disappear and are never heard from again.

It happens so often that I think the friends are scared off from PILs by their over the top behaviour and controlling ways.

And one BIL even broke up with his fiance when she confronted them about their controlling ways.

And they rarely see FIL's side of the family, they say because they are in various ways "stuck up" or "not bothered about us" or "thinking they are better."

When things went wrong between us, those were all things they decided to say about me too. It seems to be a common theme, it's not PIL's, it's everyone else.

Does your SIL seem the same OP, does she have lots of friends who disappear quickly? If so, perhaps you aren't the first to feel the way you do because of her behaviour.

"I never understand families who pander to one unpleasant individual"

We're English don't you know!

We'd rather cut our own legs off than have a public confrontation!

(though my mum at 76 is getting quite outspoken as she gets older, and my dd as got a bit of a mouth on her. Quite tempted to let her off her leash with her aunty. So far I've been stressing the importance of being respectful to adults, even if you don't like them.....)

Ah that's OK then. Now you now she likes Netmums you can just ignore her and look down on her completely.......

Actually, there is nothing you can do about her, and I admit she sounds vile. All you can change is how you react to her. You are giving her power over you. All this thinking about her, reacting to her, worrying about her, is wasted.

Just accept from today that she's vile and horrid, and that you will ignore everything she says and everything she does and just be distantly polite to her. You know she's vile, you know she will behave vilely, so when she does, don't get upset, just say to yourself 'there she goes again'.

Sounds very like my SIL although she was a great aunty and changed once her DD came along which coincided with DS's problems becoming really apparent. People like that aren't worth it DD2 nearly had a breakdown at 14 because of her and MIL your doing the right thing for your DC.

My DM was exceptionally passive aggressive, it can be more damaging than outward aggression.

I got rid of it by challenging her on everything, i made her work through what she had said and admit that it was wrong. It helped me to see if i was blowing things out of proportion, as well as putting a stop to it, if she wanted to be in me and my DD's company.

"'have I done something to upset you, because you're not talking to me'"

You started out with an apology and put you as the person in the wrong, instead of a direct challenge.

"I'm not ignoring you."
You point out that, yes, she is, end of.

"At least you don't make out that your autistic DS is bright"

"Really, because i would have thought that your training would have included SN and so you would know that autism doesn't mean redused intelligence" (with a smile on your face).

I wouldn't send the letter, but I would make an effort to keep your children away from her, particularly your 12yo DD. Perhaps your 12yo can go and spend the evening with a friend next time you see your extended family. So still do the get togethers - just make an excuse for your DD rather than saying that she hates SIL!

If you actively cut her off, you will cause a huge rift and it will create more problems than it actually solves (I have considered this in detail wrt my own situation). For the record my SIL is lovely. It's my BIL (other side of family) causing problems in my case.

good post aldiwhore
Although it might be very tempting to send that whole letter, you could try to speak to your brother more gently. 'This is a difficult thing to raise, but I'm feeling more and more uncomfortable around SIL. Correct me if I'm wrong, but she seems to dislike my children, and has said some pretty hurtful things about DS. Have you noticed this? It's getting to the point where I don't want to be around her and my DD feels the same. But obviously I don't want to lose touch with you or make things difficult for mum and dad. How can we handle this? Can we see you without her? Or can you speak to her about it?'

"Does your SIL seem the same OP, does she have lots of friends who disappear quickly? If so, perhaps you aren't the first to feel the way you do because of her behaviour."

If you read my other post you'll see that she has form when it comes to this. She's had problems with colleagues at work, has moved jobs every two or three years.

It's ironic really that db should have married someone so difficult. He's one of those people who everyone likes. Very, very kind and easy going. But like me, also non-confrontational to a stupid degree. He's lost touch with some very dear friends because she can't stand them and won't mix with them. I remember the wife of db's best friend saying to me many years ago that SIL was 'a very dangerous person' when they were first going out. I thought she was being a bit dramatic at the time but she was shrewd.....

Do Women's Own readers use quite so many naughty words as Mumsnetters? And do some editions do, er, what we do here on a Friday? Maybe they just don't leave those editions out in waiting rooms...

"You are giving her power over you. All this thinking about her, reacting to her, worrying about her, is wasted."

As my dear sis says 'Don't allow her to live rent free in your head!'

Does help to be able to PURGE the bile here on mumsnet though every now and again!

Make a formal complaint to the GTC or her head about the unprofessional remarks she makes. We are not allowed to bring the profession into disrepute, and she is doing exactly that.

Don't send the letter if you want a relationship with your db. I'd let them move and then he'll see exactly what a bitch she is, without you for light relief. I would also discuss what is going on with him and then watch him watch her at the next family gathering. He's male, they don't really want to confront things like this until they have to.

"Do Women's Own readers use quite so many naughty words as Mumsnetters? And do some editions do, er, what we do here on a Friday?"

I forgot there was a roomful of children and responded 'Mumsnet - tame? You obviously haven't stumbled across all the bumsex threads on your visits then?'.

Well she sounds like a delightful human being

I wouldn't send the letter but I would studiously and blatantly avoid her.

What a troll.

and now I'm off back to my Womans Own...

so what, she doesnt like kids, not everyone has to worship at the altar of Planet Children.

Ignore her and concentrate on making your kids behave themselves.

She sounds like a total cow. And mentally ill. I totally do not blame you for never wanting to see her again.

Whilst I know she can upset you - I too have a sil who is a catty piece of work - do not send the letter. Do not let her know she is getting to you. I think that would bring her pleasure.

You hold up your head, you grit your teeth and bloody ignore the witch. And tell your children that their aunt is really not very well in the head and they should not take her at all seriously because of that.

If you could manage to laugh at her as often as possible, it would reduce her power. And she does have power as people who seek to hurt other people often do. But you can stop her by being cold, polite and very distant and really not giving a damn about what this awful awful person thinks of you and yours. That's how I manage my sil - I don't give her the chance to be horrible anymore and if she is bitchy, I just turn away.

If she was ever vile to my children, I'm not sure I'd be able to restrain myself however. "Pick on someone your own size, you big bully," might make her feel foolish and look awful if she ever starts on your kids.

When she says stuff about the children she teaches, doesn't anyone say, "It's really not very professional to talk about them like that."

scaryteacher - honestly, I don't know how she's got away with it for so long professionally.

She's always worked at fairly challenging schools, and is well organised and has good classroom management skills. You'd think anyone like that would have managed to have got to head of department level within 10 years of qualifying wouldn't you?

I couldn't make a formal complaint about her. I really couldn't. Not unless I want to forgo seeing my brother for the rest of my life.

She's horrible, but she's not actively abusing her pupils. Just being nasty about them.

It DIES help to purge... DH and I drove the entire stretch of the lake district, not looking at the view but ranting and mocking SIl... It did the world of good.

Writing it down helps too. BUT DO NOT SEND IT!! If she's like MY SIL she'd retype it and edit it to look 10 times worse, and you'd never know.

Do you think she might be doing all this to provoke you? It doesn't sound like she is indifferent to you, and you'd think she'd pretend to like you even if she didn't so that others wouldn't notice and wouldn't think badly of her. So my conclusion is that she is very jealous of you for some reason, maybe she can't bear the fact that you are the sister of her husband as she's hugely competitive with other women. How does she behave towards your parents? Does the try to get them on side?? Sorry that you are going through this...