To not believe that 40% of parents want to bring back the cane?

[Voidka]

Really?

My children are being brought up not to hit people, not to use violence to solve their problems, and certainly never to hit anyone smaller than they are

so naturally dh and I don't hit them, nor would we condone anyone else doing so

it is really quite simple

Mr Gove might well have a penchant for a bit of whipping. I tend to prefer a far more enlightened method of discipline. I don't hit my dog I dont hit my children am hardly Mary Poppins its just simple common sense. If they play up there are consequences far worse than being hit. Personally I would prefer a slap its quick easy and enabled me to feel sorry for myself I certainly never learnt any lesson from it.
If you arent able to motivate or teach a child without battering them then you are in the wrong profession.
Personally think we should have exceptions to the rule though. I would like to cane the first Tory MP I see. Afterall they respond to a bit of discipline and repression dont they - must remember the gimp mask and the apple too. They deserve it.

Hate the idea of physical punishment and it's certainly not used on our ds, but my dh is from Italy - you wanna see a place where smacking is routine then go to his home town. Makes me sick how it's used - it seems that parents have their stance constantly in the whacking position. To the point you can tell when an adult is a parent by their slapping stance. But got to say - their kids seem to grow up OK.

My df went to a school where the cane was normal - he's never smacked me or my half sister.

Physical violence is never the answer. To even hear it as a 'maybe' scares the hell out of me. Talk about regression. It's very sad.

Smacking is bad enough.
Hitting children with a stick ?
40% of people think that's a good idea ?
I think it must come from the "it never did me any harm" school of thought.
Whereas clearly if you hold these sort of views then it did

If you felt that you could never work in a comprehensive then it's probably a good thing you left the sector. I think too many people see teaching as a profession that anyone can do, when that's far from true. Good teachers with the right skills and attitudes and good leadership at the top can and do create fantastic schools.

Only 40%? What was the target poll demographic? Mumsnet?

Dh was caned at school across the hand for gambling when he was 15.

Seeing as he laughs about it now and still enjoys the odd flutter on the horses I would say it didn't have the desired effect his long term behaviour. And it didn't stop the gambling in school either, they just became more careful apparently.

Well it was a yougov poll - they are normally pretty reliable and done online.

Well the teachers wouldn't dare to cane those whose parents are going to write a 10 pages articulate letter on why the punishment was unfair.
So, yes, it will be for 'the other' children.

As well as benefits cuts, hostility to disability, blaming single mothers and divorce etc.

God help us, we are going fucking backwards.

link from Independent

I haven't read the rest of the thread, so forgive me if i am repeating other points.
When i was at primary school in the seventies, i noticed that it was the same children who were caned every time, so for them the caning did not work. However, it may have served as a deterrent to other children.
I believe that 40% of parents want caning brought back because of the lack of discipline, lack of respect and the lack of morals among some of the youth. However, corporal punishment, would not fix the problem, imagine the furore, if a teacher oversteps the mark and physically harms a child . Imagine the increase in litigation, in particular the impact of The Human Rights Act. Caning is not the answer.

Pupils in our local secondary are put in isolation just like LeQueen's but they hate it - they spend the whole day away from the their friends, break times included. They complete the work because they are bored and they may start off thinking of the punishment is a doddle but they soon realise that solitary isn't much fun at all.

I'm surprised that a lot of you feel the cane was administered fairly only for very bad behaviour. I recall my brother getting caned for a very minor offense - the teacher involved wasn't too happy to discover my dad holding him up against a wall begging him to pick on someone his own size instead of a child!

Years ago many teachers behaved like bullies, the picked on kids and humiliated plenty - I'm sure they may have been able to achieve dicipline in the classroom but at what cost to the vunerable who needed support rather than abuse.

I definitely support the bring back of discipline in schools including the use of cane on my children. It did not kill me nor turn me into an emotional wreck. There has to be consequences for misbehaving period!!!

Corporal punishment will not be reintroduced.

Would like to see the research tables for this poll; the majority of mothers (who, lets face it, do the vast majority of hands-on parenting) were against the cane but (as usual in research) more fathers supported the cane; interested to see if the respondents all had a child in the household - could include non-resident fathers.

Regarding LeQueen's point, schools have a whole arsenal of discipline measures available, the real issue is that some of them don't use them effectively.

There's nothing nice about caning, but does anyone have a better idea? That would control the badly behaved so that the others can have an education? How about instant and permanent expulsion? Not sure what you'd do with the ones expelled, but at least the rest could get on with their work.

I can understand why some people are against it and why some people are for it. Personally I think it is okay as part of a whole system of discipline (parents and teachers), but wouldn't be any use just on its own.

It works best if rarely used so that you might not even know someone who has been caned, but you know it could happen if you go to far.

btw some of the objections are for daft/amusing reasons.

we can't because it's against the law Obviously... if we did it then we'd change the law back to what it was before.

Also if a child is given the cane, they can justifiably go and hit the child that told on them Hmm presumably beating up witnesses is justifiable too if you are taken to court?

LadyLapsang, The first page of the yougov poll asked you to confirm that you have a child under 16. Fo course people can lie - yes, it's done on the web.

This was not btw a Daily Mail article originally, but a yougov poll.

I repeat too that most schools don't have a big enough arsenal, though adding the cane will do nothing helpful.

The well'ard lads always take pride in their ability to take it and smile.

I am from a generation that experienced smacks, the ruler and the cane throughout the 1960s and early 70s. Class teachers regularly physically punished DC for poor spelling, untidy work etc. They should never bring it back.

But what should they do with the evil little s**ts who held my 12 yearold down, punched him until he cried and then took his money from his pocket? This all happened early in the morning before any teachers were around.

IMO it should be taken out of the hands of schools and delt with by the justice system. Yes they should be beaten (if found guilty) and their parents should be forced to watch. Do we get more right wing as we get older?....Yes

I think they should bring back the cane in schools, if I went home and told my dad I had been given the cane he would have given me the slipper just for getting into trouble at school. Never did any of us any harm and we have respect for others now. I don't smack my kids, but would if they were that bad.

I think removing the badly behaved kids from school is the best bet.
I grew up in a violent household, and I was very aggressive for a period of time. I had no respect for anyone who thought they were 'better' than me. I only received the strap twice, but was suspended, and expelled.
I was sent to a facility at 13 (basically a brat camp) where I learned a lot about respect.
We lived in tents (there were basic cabins for in winter), carried all of our own gear, cooking implements, food, etc. We had no contact with the outside world, except for letter writting.
We were kept physically busy from morning until night, outdoors at all times.
For those there during the school year, there were classroom lessons for 5 hours/day.
We were taught to resolve conflicts without violence, how to end the abuse cycle, how to value ourselves, and to be disciplined.
After a few months there, my behaviour changed dramatically. Within 6 months of coming back, 3 of my old group of friends had ended up in the justice system. That could have been me.
I have raised my children without corporal punishment. I wouldn't want anyone else to hurt them, ever. I do feel very strongly that there has to be more discipline in schools, and that teachers need options to manage their classes.

Does anyone remember the Jeremy Vine phone-in about people's memories of corporal punishment and being bullied by teachers?

Countless middle aged and older people calling up and telling, most of them in tears, their memories of being humiliated, badly injured, bullied and terrified out of their wits by teachers before corporal punishment was made illegal. Some of them remember it happening as tiny tots at primary school. Clearly many of them were very badly affected and never forgot. It was utterly heartbreaking to listen to them.

If it ever became legal to treat children like that again I would take my son out of school. There is a reason it has become impossible to lay so much as a finger on a child in school now, and that is because brutal, spiteful bullies took full advantage of the power over defenceless children that they had at the time.

I don't want anyone's children to be beaten, in the wrong or not.

Yes, they should bring it back.

The only decent comprehensive school that I went to (it was in a deprived area too), out of the three that I attended, did have the strap and I was never bullied there. The other two - in more affluent areas - were shite and I was bullied so badly I had to keep leaving