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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that nursery owner shouldn't be shouting at my son?

105 replies

justlookatthatbooty · 15/09/2011 21:06

My 2 dc's wouldn't put their shoes on at pick up time. I had been there 20 minutes looking at things they had been playing with and it was time for shoes on so I started gently and moved towards firm after 10 mins of messing about. AT which point the silly owner said to my son that pick up time isn't for mother's to come and play with their children at the nursery it's time for children to put their shoes on. Bit silly but fair enough, whatever. Then with a little more rebellion from my 3 year old who kept giggling and running away from shoes, She abruptly yelled at him from other side of the room with seemingly genuine agression "JOSHUA... NOW I AM GOING TO GET REALLY ANGRY..!!!" There were still 3 other kids there without their parents having arrived and it was an hour before closing time. It was sheer behaviour control and it felt like she was butting into my own moment with the kids which actually had absolutely feck all to do with her.
Son looked really shocked and tearful and slinked as far away from her as he could and put his shoes on but not like it made any sense.

Sad.

AIBU?

OP posts:
pigletmania · 15/09/2011 21:57

Tiggy some parents are too soft, yes if the parents aren't going to say anything about a child misbehaving on pick up than yes you should as its your nursery. My dear friend has a son 4.5 who can be aggressive and sometimes rude, she is too soft on him, and will say nothing if he is rude to me or hits me. I do take it upon myself to tell him off and that he behaviour is not nice or acceptable.

slavetofilofax · 15/09/2011 21:58

Also, what was helpful or constructive about "I am going to get really angry"? What, was he supposed to be scared enough to doa s he was asked?

No, he was supposed to learn that his bad behaviour was going to make someone angry.

It is ok for children to know that it will make a grown up cross if they don't do as they have been asked. At three, they are old enough to know that shoes on time is shoes on time for a reason.

I'd be wondering what she's like when you're not there

Actually, I'd say that it shows a nursery worker who is confident in her actions and methods of discipline because she knows enough about children's development in their early years to know that a firm voice telling them that their behaviour is going make someone angry, is not a bad thing.

I work in a nursery by the way, and very very rarely raise my voice at all, but our manager is the 'telling off teacher', as named by the children, and if she uses her angry voice then the children learn that their behaviour is not acceptable.

limetrees · 15/09/2011 21:58

I have always picked up as quickly as possible from nursery. I would not ever have stayed 20 mins looking at stuff unless it was an open day. I would also not accept 10 mins of disobedience re shoes from a 3yo. For me, in a nursery, it would be under a minute of shoe refusal before I either put the shoes on the child against their will or alternatively carried them out shoeless and told them sternly they must listen when mummy asks them to do something.

Tchootnika · 15/09/2011 22:01

I know, I know AZ - and I agree with you absolutely re. all points in last post Smile
I know this situation from both sides of the fence, and it is indeed very, very annoying when airy-fairy parents swan in and twaddle around. Sometimes it's OK to be stern (as teacher) with DCs, in this situation, IMHO - if they're old enough to know the brakes for that time of day.
I think it's still maybe a little mean to snap at 3yo though, under these circumstances (if 'snap' is really what she did...)

hocuspontas · 15/09/2011 22:04

I agree! If I had to ask them more than once I would take them out shoeless - embarrassed that my parenting skills were being shown up. Grin
After 10 minutes, well, the owner must have been biting her tongue for at least 8 of those.

AgentZigzag · 15/09/2011 22:05

And what must not be forgotten in all this Tchoot, it just how infuriating getting a three year old to put their shoes on can be Grin

Been there, kind of survived, got it all to come again with DD2

squeakytoy · 15/09/2011 22:07

Its quite straightforwards to me. The child got shouted at for messing around, because he was taking absolutely no notice of the ineffectual faffing that his mother was doing. Clearly the nursery manager knows how to get children to do as they are told without buggering around for ten minutes.

I suspect this little angel has never so much had a voice raised at him at home, and gets away with murder. Good on the nursery manager, and OP, you really ought to be learning from how she gets children to co-operate.

slavetofilofax · 15/09/2011 22:09

Sorry, I'm going to disagree again!

If DS was with another adult, then surely it's not fair to have a go at him (if this is what she did)

This might be true when it's a friend of the parent, or another relative, but I think it's different with a nursey worker, because the home and nursey environment are very different for children. Therefore thay need to know, for their sense of security, that they will be trated the same way by the staff whether or not Mummy is there. How can they trust the staff at nursery if Mummy doesn't see how they are are, and they don't act the same around Mummy?

It would be very frightening for small children to realise that they have power over the way Mummy behaves infront of the people that take care of them when she's not there, and vice versa. They are not mature enough to cope with those type of concepts, and it is much better for them if the continuity between nursery and home stays as level and predictable as possible.

LDNmummy · 15/09/2011 22:14

No offence but it sounds like you pander to your child too much.

squeakytoy · 15/09/2011 22:17

I started gently and moved towards firm after 10 mins of messing about. AT which point the silly owner said to my son that pick up time isn't for mother's to come and play with their children at the nursery it's time for children to put their shoes on. Bit silly but fair enough, whatever

I am really, really, failing to see anything "silly" about it.. Hmm

AgentZigzag · 15/09/2011 22:17

After thinking about my last post, I'm feeling a bit sorry for the OP.

I answered a thread once about a mum who knew she had problems getting her DC to do as she asked (not saying this is the case all the time with the OP, her DS could have just been having one of those days).

The OP of the other thread had to constantly ring her DH up at work to sort out their DC when they were misbehaving, they laughed at her when she tried to tell them off, she just couldn't get The Voice and The Look because she didn't want to upset them and so spent all her time being upset herself Sad

Maybe it's something you have to learn, and if your parents weren't like that, how can you know the intricacies of dealing with a stroppy three year old?

Bloody hell, I was brought up like that, and I hardly had a clue how to sort DD1 at that age without getting a full on temper tantrum in return.

pigletmania · 15/09/2011 22:20

slavetofilofax I will happily tell off a friends child if they are being rude or aggressive to me if the parent does not do anything or their way is ineffective. Same i would not mind someone telling dd off in the same way.

Original poster
justlookatthatbooty · 15/09/2011 22:23

Thanks people for your input/comments..

FWIW he was playing, I wasnt irritated, and 'disobedience' are you kidding me? What kind of seriously old school attitude is that? I am pretty hardcore I must say and today I was enjoying them showing me all their stuff and paintings and books. Am i the only one who does this? Surely not? Don't you sometimes spend time looking at your DC;s environment and work? I find it amazing that this is considered in some way overindulgent or am I getting the wrong end of the...?
So in response to some of your comments (all helpful and interesting by the way)... if I'm not 'allowed' as a parent to hang out at the beginning of the day and not at the end of the day then when do we, as parent's, allow our children to show us around the place where they spend a lot of hours in a day/week.
Are you telling me this isn't normal or healthy? a few minutes at the end of the day to look at their world? And a few minutes of calm and playfulness at shoes on because the glee of a 2 and 3 year old in full play mode is a force too great to 'manhandle' and I'd prefer to allow a little of their delight play itself out. Perhaps 10 minutes is an exageration but at any rate, what's the freaking rush? Honestly, what is the rush? I started to get irritatedand then it was time to get firm. But if I wasn't irritated til then why should I have to rush about. It wasn't like I was hanging around doing nothing or making myself a cuppa.
Thanks this is all helpful though. Just surprised to read some of the posts...

OP posts:
Stokey38 · 15/09/2011 22:23

Justlookatthatbody your nursery doesn't happen to be in Forest Hill does it? sounds exactly like my old nursery which we took our children out of!

SuePurblybilt · 15/09/2011 22:24

Looking again at squeaky's post quoting the OP, it seems clear that the nursery manager was cross with her (OP) and talking to her via the child:

"I started gently and moved towards firm after 10 mins of messing about. AT which point the silly owner said to my son that pick up time isn't for mother's to come and play with their children at the nursery it's time for children to put their shoes on."

Then I guess the DS got a harsher response because the OP didn't take the hint and get a move on. Which is sad and not particularly professional of the manager, she should have spoken directly to the OP both times, IMHO.

Sirzy · 15/09/2011 22:26

I look at what ds has done each time I pick him up from nursery, it takes a matter of minutes to do and normally that and the discussion about the day occurs while me and his key worker get everything sorted for us going home. Still in and out in well under 5 mins so the staff can get back to what they are meant to be doing.

Sevenfold · 15/09/2011 22:28

op, when your child was playing at not putting the shoes on, was that during the time you were paying for or after it had finished?

RitaMorgan · 15/09/2011 22:28

It's not just about you though OP, it's about the staff and other children at the nursery.

20 minutes hanging around is too long.

manticlimactic · 15/09/2011 22:31

And a few minutes of calm and playfulness at shoes on because the glee of a 2 and 3 year old in full play mode is a force too great to 'manhandle' and I'd prefer to allow a little of their delight play itself out.

How twee!

SuePurblybilt · 15/09/2011 22:34

X Posted.

OP, in theory I agree with you, we should see how our children spend their days, with whom and where. In practice, most settings aren't geared up for this and some seem to resent any presence of parents and hanging around at pick-up doesn't work well. As I said - what would happen if you wanted to do that at 6pm, do the staff stay on? And do you need 30 minutes in the setting to spend time there every time he attends?

I think it's a bigger question than you and this nursery - EY settings in general could stand to be more welcoming, pay their staff more (so that staying on isn't such a big deal), include parents more. So could schools for that matter - when your DS starts school, you probably won't even be let in the building from one term to the next Grin.

You're right in theory but without major changes to the systems and attitudes in childcare, you're going to get chivvied out if you spend 30 mins picking up and tbh, I can see it from both sides.

Tchootnika · 15/09/2011 22:35

Sue - that was my understanding, having read OP. (Hence points I was trying to make...)
Odd how OPs can read differently after seeing many similar responses to them (or is this just me? I read this one several times, saw a load of different scenarios, IYSWIM - now seeing first one again after last post from Sue)
It really did read as if the nursery worker was getting at the OP through telling off DC - which seems awful.

Original poster
justlookatthatbooty · 15/09/2011 22:36

am allowed to pick up anytime between 4 pm and 6.30pm. It was 5 oclock. She has a history of flying off the handle at small things. Naturally, I feel misunderstood here.
Wet parenting? What the feck do you know you?
I've described one scenario at one place where I was for once calm and kind to my kids, instead of yelling at them and forcing them into jackets etc etc for the major part of each day which is the daily status quo. I just spent the first day hour this year drinking a cup of tea before picking them up early. Made a huge point, as I stood on doorstep, before ringing bell, not to force them into their coats and shoes, just for one day.

Jesus people. Calm down.
x

OP posts:
Original poster
justlookatthatbooty · 15/09/2011 22:38

in reply to the paying for post sevenfold...

I pay 150 a day regardless of how many hours I use.

OP posts:
Tchootnika · 15/09/2011 22:39

justlookatthatbooty - having read your last post, though, I do think you should think a bit more carefully about other people's time, concentration, nerve endings, etc...

It sounds as if perhaps you don't like the nursery because you think they don't tolerate your wanting to play/dawdle at the end of the day.

This is quite different to worrying about how they treat your DS.

worraliberty · 15/09/2011 22:42

I despair when I read threads like this, I really do.

It just makes me wonder at what point did the world turn so crazy that parents get upset about these things?

If my kids were piss balling about instead of putting their coats and shoes on, I would be the one raising my voice and making sure they did exactly what they were told.

But if a Nursery teacher had to do it, I'd be more embarrassed than annoyed to be honest.

Maybe I'm ancient but I'm 42 and if your Mum told you to put your coat and shoes on...that's exactly what you did.

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