To think this nurse was exaggerating the truth...

[Likeaheadlesschicken]

I have just been to take my DD (13 months) for her injections. I very politely requested to have the 12 month boosters on a separate visit to the MMR. The nurse then told me that every other child in the country has their's together. AIBU to think this isnt the case???

In the end she agreed but after trying to make me feel silly and very PFB-ish. I definately don't want to turn this into a MMR/vaccinations debate, I just feel that it should be "my baby my choice" on how things are done (obviously working within the constraints of the NHS) and that it simply isn't true that ALL children have their injections together.

Irma, in the spirit of trying to reclaim MN from the fightclub it has become, coudl you at least try not to juxtapose words like "hysterical" and "non vaccinating"?

I mean, why did you even feel the need ot say that?

I think a lot of work goes into making sure they are as safe and effective as possible. It will never be perfect, but really, nobody repeat nobody in the NHS wants children to get damaged unnecessarily, so parents just have to hang onto that.

but children are being damaged unnecessarily, senior. people in the nhs might not want it to happen, but it is happening.

I've also had experience of working with measles damaged kids and really it's a very nasty disease. I would choose ASD over that.

captainCroc it's true absolutely that no causality can be shown: anecdotes DO ahve value when looking for dieas to investigate though.

They will never get a clear set fo asd data becuase it is known that ASD is not a one thing: just a core set of symptoms shared by quite possibly hundreds of disorders, some liekly to be caused by brain damage, some genetic (still intesrested in that trigger though), some- well anyone's guess.

Nothing has been ruled out because the numbers can be tiny. And they can be unsual too- my family has a fairly obvious mild / moderate ASD pathway running through: yet ds1 and ds3 are so different it's incredible, right down to the way they process feelings and show empathy (my own research is on empathy and asd and whether there really is a simple absence- does seem far mroe complex tbh).

Yes we could look at support but that's gonme out the window with the cuts anyway, for many at least. And the investoigation into aetiology ahs ahd results tehre anyway- eg brain scans showing damage mean appeals for Blue Badges refuse don the basis of ASD not being a ophysical Sn have been won.

Actually, it is regrettable but probably necessary for the greater good, although that's little comfort to individual families. Which is why I think more could be done for SN kids in general to support them.

" anecdotes DO ahve value when looking for dieas to investigate though"

Yes, definitely. Surely that's how new areas of research are identified. And yellow cards for new drugs on the market.

Blueberties as I said earlier the link was disputed in 130 separate scientific studies using random as opposed to hand picked participants.

I have no idea where your figure of 130 comes from nor which studies they are. I can tell you however that many studies have been dismissed as worthless by the scientific community itself. A number of them were heavily promooted by the government as final proof that there was no link.

"I have never suggested that I am .. an expert in your or anyone elses child."

Yes you have. You know - apparently - that these thousands of children, whose parents claim they were damaged by MMR, were not damaged by MMR. That's an impressive ability of diagnosis. Never seen the kid, never seen the records, never talked to the doctors, but wow, you can just tell. Ahem I don't think so.

I simply questionned how vaccine damage was proved in the case of the child. For example the symptoms of ASD often don't become apparent until toddlerhood well that's funny because one study used to "prove" MMR is not at fault claims that children who are reported to have been damaged actually show signs of autsim as babies. You need to make your minds up.

Just because something happens close to another event doesn't mean it is the cause. Its like saying that the cat was in the house and made me fall down the stairs when it wasn't actually in the room.

eEally? That's like saying, my baby was fine, normal bowel habits and not unwell and reaching all his milestones. He had the MMR, he screamed all that night, and slept more than usual and was very distressed for the next week and had diarrhoea. We took hij to the doctor and he said it was normal and he proabaly had a virus at the same time. When he eventually recovered from his illness he had stopped all eye contact and wouldn't babble at us any more and had lost the early words he has learned. He keeps doubling over with his stomach like he was in pain and he has terrible bowel problems now.

That's like saying, the cat was in the room and I feel over? Is it? Really?

Say it is, I dare you.

How about you get three thousadn people telling similar stories. Is that like blaming the cat for making you fall over? Is it?

Well yes but it isn;t ahppening: in fact it looks as if new ATOS / support targets make support particularly hard for people with an ASD to receive. I do a lot of ASD / carer support work and I am meeting famillies every week now refused help in plainly difficult situations and the answer is always: we can't afford it.

Well we can offer help or we can rtry and precent the disbaility- better both- but doing nothing is worng. IMO.

Stealth, I respect your approach very much, thank you for that post.

Exactly SPB.

Better to do the research and say no (and I am not certain that MMR and ASD are linked, not at all. My guess in my family would be no, although I needed the full picture of ds4 to come to that conclusion IYSWIM).

And no, I don't ever accept the collateral damage line either.

i imagine the parents on the ASD spectrum aren't 'high five-ing' each other that you'd rather your kid had that instead of measles.

very bad taste to say that Senior Wrangler.

Can anyone tell me why the jabs used to be given a month apart?

Measles is listed by Unicef as one of the top 5 causes of child mortality worldwide:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_mortality

The thing is that lots of people seem to think that the nhs is hiding the safety of the vaccine, yet what would be gained by that. If they truely believed that the multi vaccination caused brain damage/ asd in a large number of people then they would do something about it. The cost involved for special schooling or extra classroom support, portage, social worker, parent unable to work perhaps, child being susceptible to other problems i.e. accidental injury, means that it would then become more cost effective for separate vaccines. The fact is that it is a miniscul number of children compared to the overall population. The syptoms of having a rash, wheeze etc are a more pronounced reaction to the vaccine, however, if a child reacts to the vaccine in that way then they would be far worse if they got the actual disease and had no antibodies to it.

koukla-mou - are you suggesting that this link proves there is no link between MMR and autism? because it kinda doesn't. At all. I'm not sure who would disagree that measles can damage children. It's others who disagree that MMR damages children. So what eactly is the point of your link?

No I don't think it's a huge cover up, although it's been denied so often that litigation costs would be magnificent.

PublicHair thank you, it was bad taste yes. But hten I have seen so many marriages detroyed, homes lost and futures given up to ASD that I would think that I guess.

The fact is that it is a miniscul number of children compared to the overall population.

you have no idea if this is true - no one does

The syptoms of having a rash, wheeze etc are a more pronounced reaction to the vaccine, however, if a child reacts to the vaccine in that way then they would be far worse if they got the actual disease and had no antibodies to it.

what on earth is this, it doesn't make sense

if you are saying the actual disease is always worse than the vaccine reaction that is absolutely not true

Can you not say things that aren't true please

i am behind you all sisters (it's TSC) always have been,always will be dude.

btw cros do respond to my post asking if the cat/falling over routine is the same as the thousands of reports of temporal correlation of vaccine-regression

did you not want to take up my dare

There ahs been no decent research carried out on the tiny subgroups affectde by the auto immune theory.

That does not mean that ther is a link, but it does mean there's no point waving different research at people to try and dismiss the whole idea.

There won;t be that research either: what university or research establishment is going down that line? I got a face when I considerd looking into stress experienced by parent-carers of people on the spectrum in light of the welfare changes! I just don;t think anyone would go there: why would you? Finding the cause is the ASD Holy Grail but if it were to be this one- nah.