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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Private companies running classes in state schools, DD can't go because we are poor, AIBU to complain??

748 replies

PollyPeppa · 15/09/2011 10:26

We are below the poverty line as we have 3 DC's and DH and I are full time uni students. We worked in low paid jobs and decided enough was enough and are now hoping to get better ones after university.

DD's school had just started up after school Spanish club. We sent her along to the trial session and she loved it. We had foolishly assumed there would be a concessionary rate (as there usually is with after school clubs) but there is not as it is run by a private company so we can't afford for her to go again.

I feel this is very unfair to offer this as only children whose parents can afford to send them can go, I think it creates a divide in the 'state' system.

OP posts:
KittyFane · 17/09/2011 08:59

pollypeppa This is a club run by a private company, using the school grounds and paying the school (no doubt) for the privilege.

YABU to expect a discount. DD can't go to music lessons taught by outside music teachers in school time because we can't afford it.

This sense of entitlement annoys me. We have recently had the 'access for all, adult education course' booklet through the door. There is a course I want to go on but guess what? Because I work FT I will have to pay £239.00....(discounts and free places available to others)
Well, I can't afford it and I can't go. Is that unfair too OP?

SardineQueen · 17/09/2011 09:00

Jilly I was referring to this comment of yours which I thought was particularly nasty:

"And how much are these Spanish lessons?

Price of a packet of fags?"

To imply that the OP is spending her money on fags rather than her DD is pretty below the belt IMO.

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 17/09/2011 09:04

kittyfane your examples are terribly unfair. Why aren't you angry about it? You sound more annoyed at the people who do get the discounts than with the people who dictate that this education is beyond your means.

Original poster
PollyPeppa · 17/09/2011 09:04

Can I just say that although we may be poor we have never smoked, are not alcoholics and we pay a lot of attention to what we eat. DH is doing his degree in nutrition then hoping to either do a PGCE or work for the NHS as a nutritionist.

May I also say that I do not think these classes should be stopped, nor am I asking for them for free. I simply think that if they are using the school grounds for free (which I have since leant they are) and getting free advertising through the school then they should offer some concessionary rates for those on low incomes.

The school is apparently required to hold these classes as part of their varied extra curricular opportunities. I think that these should be accessable to all children.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 17/09/2011 09:06

Stuck, I'm not sure why you're telling me to cheer up - I'm pointing out that lack of extra-curricular Spanish isn't automatically dooming the OPs DD to a life of poverty, nor to a life of failure in foreign languages.

SardineQueen · 17/09/2011 09:07

polly I hope that you can take away from this thread the constructive suggestions, and not take the wider arguments which are basically political, personally!

I think the school should have been much clearer that the usual pricing structure was not in place for these classes, they should have made that clear before the free taster session. I also think that you should keep talking to them about this and their plans for the future etc.

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 17/09/2011 09:09

Where did I tell you to cheer up? Not that I don't want you to be cheery on Saturday morning!

noblegiraffe · 17/09/2011 09:12

You started a post 'cheerup noblegiraffe' but now I see another poster called cheerup :D

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 17/09/2011 09:13

Oh ok, I get you Smile

KittyFane · 17/09/2011 09:18

Stuck I work full time and I can't do the things that people on low incomes can do because can't afford to. I am annoyed at the whole unfair system.

Original poster
PollyPeppa · 17/09/2011 09:22

KittyFane - you can work full time and be on a low income too. If your income is that low that you can't afford to these things perhaps you are entitled to a concessionary rate too?

OP posts:
Original poster
PollyPeppa · 17/09/2011 09:44

Once I am in the position to I will absolutely not begrudge paying a bit more for classes so that the poorest children can also participate.

Even if the parents were to 'spend all their money on fags' booze, whatever, should their children miss out because of this? isn't this creating a cycle of sorts?

OP posts:
bumbleymummy · 17/09/2011 09:47

"take the best advantage of the opportunities which are on offer to you instead of moaning about the ones which aren't."

Very good point noblegiraffe.

FreudianSlipper · 17/09/2011 09:50

i would expect to pay for after school classes

i am also a full time uni student, money is a little tight i work p/t too and i am in my own its a struggle but it is what i choose (well to study) to get a better life. i personally feel i am very very lucky to get the opportunity to study at uni full time at this stage in my life and get financial help to do this, even if much of it is a loan. it was a choice i made and you made so i think yabu

Original poster
PollyPeppa · 17/09/2011 09:54

I am not expecting them for free

OP posts:
FreudianSlipper · 17/09/2011 10:14

but the choice you have made to go back to studying means that you all have to go without at times

life is not always fair in those on lower incomes, those on middle incomes get no help with tax credits, child care so it is unfair on many but at least many of us are getting the opportunity to get out of that trap, you are taking advantage of that but it comes at a price

LtEveDallas · 17/09/2011 10:22

I am very surprised that a school would break a business confidence and let a parent know that they supplied a classroom to a business for free Hmm

Mind you, a school that would do that is probably badly run in the first place.

kat2504 · 17/09/2011 10:29

Polly Peppa that is where you are mistaken. People who work full time generally miss out on concessionary rates. Even if they are on a low income. In some parts of the country where rents are ridiculously high, you don't have to be on what would seem to be a very low income to have very little money left over once you have put a roof over your head. But because you are working you are not "entitled" to any financial help with anything at all. That is what the rest of us are struggling with. It isn't just unemployed people, people on minimum wages, and students. It also includes people who have jobs that sound fairly alright, but the spiralling cost of rent/mortgage, bills, council tax have left them struggling to afford any luxuries whatsoever. I am sure there are plenty of people in this category who would love to pay for more fun things for their children to do but they simply can't afford it either. And they have no chance of a concessionary rate. The people who do get the concessionary rate often have council tax benefit, housing benefit, free school meals etc. I'm not saying they shouldn't have those things, of course they should. But you can't expect to have absolutely everything at preferential rates.

huffythethreadslayer · 17/09/2011 10:34

We all make choices in our lives which affect our financial situation. It is harder to make those choices when you are brought up in poverty, and I say this as one of 6 children brought up on a sink estate, but you still get to make choices. Your decisions may be limited by lack of familial experience (one of the reasons I didn't go to university, despite being an exceptionally 'bright' child) and lack of funds. You learn quite early on that there are different worlds, and where you sit in these worlds depends on how much money your mum and dad have. I had nothing growing up. We struggled for food at times, let alone material possessions. We had no phone whilst I was at home; no shower; no trips with school (not even a weekend to Wales on an exchange trip); no violin lessons (despite the fact that I wanted them more than life itself). Nothing.

I also had parents who, frankly, couldn't give a crap about my lack of 'things' and really just wanted me to get out and earn some money. I lived. I thrived despite the suffocating lack of opportunity. I probably looked for it all the harder.

Would my life have been better, easier, more enriched, if I could have done these things? Yes. Was I entitled to them? No. Could we have afforded them, even with reductions in price? No.

And for that reason, I think YABU OP. Some people can't afford any classes, no matter what. Your daughter is lucky. You're educating yourself and you're showing her an example. The fact that she has to do without Spanish lessons now is really no big deal. Others have to do without much more basic needs.

noblegiraffe · 17/09/2011 11:13

Not expecting them for free doesn't make it better, tbh. You are looking at these classes and where another family would say 'These are too expensive, you can't do them' you are saying 'These are too expensive, they should be made cheaper for me', and then complaining that they aren't. If this was in school time, fine. But it's not, these classes are not a need, they are a want. No one gets everything they want.

lateatwork · 17/09/2011 11:18

YANBU

The private company is not paying to use the school grounds... and thus they should be able to factor this in to their pricing and offer discounted prices compared to courses where they would have to pay for premises say at a community hall or in a private setting. Maybe they have chosen to offer one discounted price to all... which would benefit the most number of people, but would not necessarily be based on ability to pay, and thus not be 'fair'. If they are not offering at least an across the board discount to all parents, then the increase in profits are being reaped by the private company. I think then that the school's policy should be clear and transparent. Why was the company offering spanish classes chosen by the school over another company wanting to offer say greater discounted services to some or all families?

halcyondays · 17/09/2011 11:26

As a general rule, classes run by private companies tend to be expensive, they are running a business not a charity. Cheaper activities tend to be provided only when there is funding provided, or when they are run by volunteers, e.g teachers or volunteers who are giving up their time for nothing, or perhaps by the council.

KittyFane · 17/09/2011 11:32

noblegiraffe-You are looking at these classes and where another family would say 'These are too expensive, you can't do them' you are saying 'These are too expensive, they should be made cheaper for me', and then complaining that they aren't. If this was in school time, fine. But it's not, these classes are not a need, they are a want. No one gets everything they want.
I couldn't agree more with this.

KittyFane · 17/09/2011 11:50

Housing benefit, income support, council tax benefit, Nhs dentist, free school meals, bus pass, water rates benefit, free evening adult education, discounted theatre and cinema tickets, free swimming....
and now discounted Spanish bloody lessons .
Sorry to snap OP, but I bet you're not that far off us when it comes to disposable income After all bills are paid, the 3 of us ( me DD and DH) have £68 per week between us.
We both teach FT BTW, live in a modest house/ area and have no debts.

adamschic · 17/09/2011 11:58

If you are on FSM you can get a lot of this stuff free, ring school and ask.

Before anyone jumps on me I am not on FSM and that is how I know this.