Private companies running classes in state schools, DD can't go because we are poor, AIBU to complain??

[PollyPeppa]

We are below the poverty line as we have 3 DC's and DH and I are full time uni students. We worked in low paid jobs and decided enough was enough and are now hoping to get better ones after university.

DD's school had just started up after school Spanish club. We sent her along to the trial session and she loved it. We had foolishly assumed there would be a concessionary rate (as there usually is with after school clubs) but there is not as it is run by a private company so we can't afford for her to go again.

I feel this is very unfair to offer this as only children whose parents can afford to send them can go, I think it creates a divide in the 'state' system.

[Marne]

Sorry in advance as i havn't read the whole thread.

In a way YABU and in another way YANBU.

Dd's school has lots of afre school clubs which you have to pay for, i have never sent her to any, these clubs are often things that are not really that important for my dd's to learn (french, spanish, football, couuntry dancing ect.. ect..). These companies have to charge as thats how they make a living and if they let your child attend for free why shouldn't all the children attend for free?

On the other hand it is very sad that children who have parents with money get better opertunities then children from poor backgrounds, this is why often children from poorer backgrounds end up with the shit job's (i know its not always the case), children from richer backgrounds get sent to the better (private) schools where they do a lot more activities out of school and get i higher level of education (again thats not always the case). Thats life, very sad but very true.

I cant really afford for my dd's to have french lessons, swimming lessons or music lessons. Dd1 has just started going to Brownies and i have managed to find the £2.50 a week for her to go as i think its important for her to make friends in the village (we moved last year and started a new school 2 weeks ago) and i'm sure its much better to learn to make friends and have fun rather than learning another language.

If your dc's are so keen on going is there not another way you can find the money? if i'm stuck for money i will sell a few things on e-bay to pay for something (dd's old clothes and toys ect..). Although we a repretty skint (dh works 20+ hours in a low payed job and i'm carer to dd2 who has ASD and other problems), if my dd's really want/need something i will go that extra mile to get the money to pay for it. If they are not really bothered about the spanish class then i wouldn't worry (probably not worth the money anyway).

[Marne]

We also have a problem with dd2 doing after school activities because she needs a 1:1/carer with her which either the school/after school club would have to provide or i would have to provide, she would love to go to 'Rainbows' or a music group but we cant afford for her to have a 1:1 with her.

[PollyPeppa]

Housing benefit, income support, council tax benefit, Nhs dentist, free school meals, bus pass, water rates benefit, free evening adult education, discounted theatre and cinema tickets, free swimming....

The only thing we get is free school meals which is appreciated. Yes we have an NHS dentist but so does everyone else (working full time) we know.

[AurraSing]

It would be interesting to know the take up rate for this class. At that price I would be surprised if they have a dozen children. So rather than being excluded, your dc would be one of many not to have the opportunity.

If you really want your dc to attend the class, speak to the course organiser, the PTA or find about any 'social inclusion' money knocking about.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't expecty dc to learn much Spanish on this type of course.

[Marne]

I agree Polly, the only thing we get is the dentist (but then most children get this don't they?), we dont get free school meals although we could be dd's would refuse to eat them.

Aurra- i agree, i'm sure there are not many children that will be going. Dd1's friend went to french after school and after 6 months knew hardly anything, my dd1 learnt more learning it on the PC.

[KittyFane]

Polly- Children whose parents receive the following are entitled to free school meals:
 
Income Support (IS)
Income-based Jobseekers Allowance (IBJSA)
Income-related Employment and Support Allowance
support under part VI of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999
Child Tax Credit, provided they are not entitled to Working Tax Credit and have an annual income, as assessed by HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC), that does not exceed £16,190 (TC 602 Final Award Notice - 2011/2012) the guaranteed element of State Pension Credit. NB Children who receive IS or IBJSA in their own right are also entitled to free school meals.

[KittyFane]

You only get FSM if you are claiming a benefit, be it child/working tax credit or other.
I understand your point but you must see that there are lots of people with v little disposable income who are not able to get discounts.
Ps Nhs dentists don't = free dental treatment!

[adamschic]

Kitty, that's wrong, you only get FSM if you are not working. WTC is only for working people on very low household incomes but the fact you get WTC doesn't entitle you to FSM, regardless of income. FSM are for families who don't work.

It's bad really as although my income would qualify for FSM we don't get them because I work 30 hours a week receiving a tiny amount of WTC but more CTC. FSM criteria is also used for free trips, books, school holidays and the new 16-19 bursary fund which we don't qualify for.

[adamschic]

Kitty, your first post was correct and said 'provided you don't get WTC'.

[PollyPeppa]

We didn't used to get free school meals but while working full time we did get working tax credit & child tax credit.

It will be a great to be able to break out of the benefit cycle once we graduate. We will have debts but it will be worth every penny to be able to secure better jobs and a better life for our children long term

[KittyFane]

I was confused for a min. adamschic! :o

It's all a mess... Makes me annoyed.

[KittyFane]

I don't begrudge you Polly, I am just in a situation where I am knackered from work and haven't got any money to have fun- it's making me narky.

[adamschic]

Bit confused Polly about how you are getting FSM, without the other benefits.

I have never wanted to qualify for FSM tbh, we didn't need it and still don't. It's only recently that I've bothered to take any notice when they abolished EMA then gave school the discretionary bursaries to help 'only families who qualify for FSM'.

They went back on the EMA for DD's year anyway and only took £10 off her instead of the whole lot .

[Marne]

The whole system is a mess, we don't get FSM (after looking at the above we dont qualify), dh works 20 hours at work and doea 10 hours a week self employed (which makes very liitle), he has a low payed job so does not bring much home but because he's doing 30 hours we get WTC, we don't get HB (we could probably claim a little but we choose not to as the forms are complicated as dh does some self employed work and mony varies each week), i get crers allowence wich is not alot. Both my dd's get DLA and we often have to use this to help pay bills, if we did not get this then i don't know how we would survive (although i would rather my dd's did not have sn's and we did not have to claim it).

It is tough that sometimes our dc's can not join in with after school activities but i think there are lots of people in the same boat so they will not be the only children missing out.

[JillySnooper]

I would very happily subsidise working poor families who work bloody hard and are often worse off than those who don't.

[MadameCastafiore]

Will be a good lesson to your kids - make them realise that they aren't entitled to everything and need to work hard to have what they want.

[MadameCastafiore]

It's why we don't agree to all fo the wants our children have - we could afford them but they need to understand that money doesn't grow on trees and some people have more than you.

[MollieO]

I would speak to the head if you feel you have been mislead. There is an activity at ds's school which costs £80 per term. That is more expensive than activities he does outside school. However it is optional and the school communicated the price at the same time they sent info home about it. If your school didn't do the same then you need to speak to them. If they did but you thought you'd get a discount then I'm afraid YABU as you should have checked the financial position before you let your dd try the class.

[MollieO]

misled not mislead.

[MadameCastafiore]

And poor in your opening question???

You are not poor FFS you can afford to not work full time and study and still feed and clothe your children and you say you are poor????

You are not poor at all maybe earn less than others but not poor if all you get is free school meals.

[StuckInTheMiddleWithYou]

Of course children should be taught that if you cannot afford something you cannot have it.

But do we really want to apply that lesson to education? If you can't afford it you can't have it?

[MadameCastafiore]

They get an education Stuck - they go to school and will at some point learn a language - we are not talking about a country where there is not adequate state education we are talking about an after school club that is run by a company that is not a charity and should not have to subsidise places for people who have chosen a way of life which means they cannot afford to pay for the lessons.

[squidworth]

What about the poor children who cant go even if the parents can afford it but cannot be arsed to pay £70 for their child to learn 1% of another language. I think I better start saving for the counciling sessions my children will need as even if I have the cash I (foolishly) believe children need to learn they cannot have everything for whatever reason.
Marne I use short breaks which pays for the 1:1 part of my child, I have to pay the usual fee and the council pay for the extra to support his inclusion, I do this for 1:1 swimming lessons.

[Marne]

Thanks squidworth, i will look into the 1:1 thing as i'm sure dd2 would love to be able to do something as she see's her sister going to brownies.

[HappyMummyOfOne]

I agree, if the only benefit you are truly claiming is FSM then you are not poor at all especially as neither of you work part time like the bulk of students. However I doubt very much that you arent claiming tax credits and child benefit and student loans dont usually cover rent, bills, council tax plus providing for two adults and three children.

As MadameCasta says, it will be a great lesson for your children. It will show them that you have to work to get the extras in life. If everybody was handed everything on a plate the majority would never work.