Private companies running classes in state schools, DD can't go because we are poor, AIBU to complain??

[PollyPeppa]

We are below the poverty line as we have 3 DC's and DH and I are full time uni students. We worked in low paid jobs and decided enough was enough and are now hoping to get better ones after university.

DD's school had just started up after school Spanish club. We sent her along to the trial session and she loved it. We had foolishly assumed there would be a concessionary rate (as there usually is with after school clubs) but there is not as it is run by a private company so we can't afford for her to go again.

I feel this is very unfair to offer this as only children whose parents can afford to send them can go, I think it creates a divide in the 'state' system.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

Lateatwork - you stated that the private company running these lessons IS getting the use of the school premises for free - can you tell us where your evidence is for that claim? As far as I am aware, the OP has not said at any point that the company is using the school premises for free; and others have come on and stated clearly that the schools they know about DO charge private companies to use the school - the money raised from this going to improve things for all children in the school.

Interestingly, in the Times today, it says they are giving away a spanish course for free. I've been out, running a stall at a craft fair, all day, so haven't had a chance to look at it properly, but am happy to do so, and to send it to someone who feels they or their children might benefit from it.

[SardineQueen]

"PollyPeppa Sat 17-Sep-11 09:04:58
Can I just say that although we may be poor we have never smoked, are not alcoholics and we pay a lot of attention to what we eat. DH is doing his degree in nutrition then hoping to either do a PGCE or work for the NHS as a nutritionist.

May I also say that I do not think these classes should be stopped, nor am I asking for them for free. I simply think that if they are using the school grounds for free (which I have since leant they are) and getting free advertising through the school then they should offer some concessionary rates for those on low incomes.

The school is apparently required to hold these classes as part of their varied extra curricular opportunities. I think that these should be accessable to all children."

OP said it here, SDTG.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

I had missed that, SardineQueen. And that definitely changes things. I think I would be angry, in the OP's position, knowing that there isn't even the benefit to the school from some income.

[bumbleymummy]

But maybe they've given a concessionary rate to all the pupils as a result of them getting the premises for less? The classes may cost more if they were paying for the hire of another building.

[LtEveDallas]

The OP said it, but I at that...we absolutely, positively, definately would not be allowed to discuss what if anything we charged a particular company for the use of the hall.

There is a set rate for private individuals of course, for birthday parties and the like but business users pay different rates, have to self fund CRB etc and pay business insurance.

I no longer believe the OP.

[PollyPeppa]

Why on earth would I make that up?! I spoke to one of the governers about it yesterday, I seriously doubt she would make it up. She said they are actually required to hold extra curricular classes for some reason.

[dikkertjedap]

There is no level playing field in school - in school the kids are asked what they do outside school. The kids who do theatre/music/dance are often the ones picked for school performances. They have more confidence and are more likely to come forward for auditions in school time. The kids who have music outside school, are more likely to excel in music lessons during school time. The kids who go to sports clubs after school are more likely to do well in PE. All these kids have things to talk about at school with their peers and teachers, it boosts their confidence and they will have a better chance to do well in other areas as a result. Kids who have swimming lessons are more likely already able to swim when school swimming starts and hence won't be teased and labelled as stupid ... I can go on and on, this is a society which knowingly and purposefully EXCLUDES rather than includes and in this way major inequalities will persist. This is a society with two groups: the haves and the have nots. Nothing to be proud off and very hard to change if there is no will to change it.

[JillySnooper]

Well, cubs , scouts and Beavers are very reasonable indeed and kids can have a huge range of experiences through them.

Our local kids football squad is £1 a week.

Local dance club £2

Local youth club - absolutely free.

Some parents exclude their children for one reason or another .Society doesn't necessarily.

[MilaMae]

Polly most schools have a range of free clubs. Ours has a huge timetable of free stuff then a couple of expensive things like Spanish and Judo which they hire the hall out to. They also hire the hall out to an after school club.My dc go to none of these things much as they'd love to and I couldn't give a stuff as they bring in much needed cash for other things. Also my dc go to a couple of nice free clubs so they're happy.

Your dc don't need Spanish lessons(does anybody)and I think considering you're lucky enough to have 2 people in your family studying and being supported by the state you should be grateful for what you do have. When my dp and I got 2 of our degrees we had to take it in turns whilst the other worked and got absolutely zilch.

I can't believe you're having a strop over Spanish lessons when there are families living in bedsits.If you want the lessons so much get a night shift in Tesco,I have friends who do just that in order to pay for extras.

I honestly despair that people actually believe they're entitled to funding for such fripparies as Spanish lessons,honestly it beggars belief.

[dikkertjedap]

Clearly some of you are tremendously lucky as your dc are in schools that offer free activities - no such schools here. If you can't pay you can't join the club, simple as that.

[Sirzy]

They are supposed to use the school for other things out of school hours, but I would still be shocked if they aren't at least making a donation to school funds - if they aren't the school are missing a great chance to make a bit of money!

[MilaMae]

We're talking craft and country dancing.

To be frank do kids need a whole vast list of extra curricular activities?

They have a very broad curriculum in school which covers music,art,sport and in many schools languages.

If people want more sorry but it's up to parents to get off their backsides and get an evening job once a week,ask for them as bday presents or cut back in other areas.

Since when did this country become so rich that people could start demanding Spanish lessons and feel hard done by when they don't get them?

[squidworth]

You can never have a level playing field, if all children are taught and all included the rich will have better lessons, 1:1, the best tutors and we can mock the rich as having it to easy, but the private education have created some very intelligent people who have invented a great deal of what we use today, are responsible for advances in medicine just as there are people who have had the worst possible start in life who have used this to inspire themselves and then others. the inclusion you wants cost money and if a policy that everyone or no one then all you will get it that the privalleged areas will offer spanish and the poorer areas will not.

[Sirzy]

They may not NEED them but they are nice to have and do provide opportunities. However, they certainly dont need to be expensive. I was in St John Ambulance when I was younger (still am now) and paid 50p a week subs - its up to about a pound now in most divisions - and when I was younger there wasn't a great deal of other costs involved either. Much more useful than a 7 weeks spanish course to ;)

There are options accessible to everyone who wants to access them, you just have to look to find the right ones!!

[Bumsnetter]

I think people are talking about the poorest families, i.e people who get FSM. If you are a student and start working you get less student loan and less maintenance grant. If you are a single parent on income support and get a job you won't get any more money as your money will be cut from other areas. If you are a parent on incapacity benefit chances are you can't work anyway. It really is not always as simple as 'get an extra job' .

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

PollyPeppa - just to clarify - did the governor you spoke to say that the private spanish class gets to use the school premises for free? I have to say that that would really surprise me, and when I was a school governor, I would not have been in favour of the school allowing a private, money-making enterprise to use the premises for free.

Is it possible that what the governor was saying is that some non-profitmaking groups get to use the rooms for free?

[AbigailS]

And, without meaning this as a critisim to governors, they may not know the whole picture / have got it right.
A school is an enormous enterprise and everyone doesn't know everything. Even when I was a head teacher for two terms I didn't know / remember everything. The team of school leadership, office staff and governors all have different and complementary roles to play. Although I was in charge and had an overall view I left much of the finance detail to the bursar and the governors on the finance committee.

[bumbleymummy]

Bumsnetter, a part time job would not reduce your student loan. Most students need to work part time to allow them to pay for extras. Loans barely cover fees and living expenses.

[huffythethreadslayer]

The rich can afford to do all sorts of things that the average family can't. There can be no equity in the world. This happens everywhere. If you live in some countries, the bottom rung is merciless. In this country, families are provided with enough to live as a bare minimum. That doesn't mean it's down to the state to provide luxuries. In other countries people don't even get the minimum support they need to live.

I have to say, I agree with the earlier post by MilaeMae ...when we get to the stage where people are complaining that their kids can't get free Spanish lessons, the sense of entitlement some people have really does seem beyond reason.

[sunnydelight]

YABU. You chose to be students so you need to live with your choices. Lots of people work their asses off and still can't afford "extras".

[yellowsubmarine41]

This thread has over 700 messages.

It has hit some sort of raw nerve in lots of people, it would seem.

[diabolo]

Can't quite believe this thread is still going.... my much criticised (by the OP) contributions were back at the beginning, but huffythethreadslayer really sums it up for me.

I work in a sink estate school where the kids are lucky if their parents give them breakfast. We have a well above average FSM ratio. I have no problem with the OP and her partner trying to better their chances in the employment market, and wish that some of our parents would do the same.

But to then expect discounted, non-essential, non National Curricuulum Spanish lessons is certainly not what I would do, were I in the same situation.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

Here's the link to the free learn conversational spanish download from the Times. Next week they're offering French.