Private companies running classes in state schools, DD can't go because we are poor, AIBU to complain??

[PollyPeppa]

We are below the poverty line as we have 3 DC's and DH and I are full time uni students. We worked in low paid jobs and decided enough was enough and are now hoping to get better ones after university.

DD's school had just started up after school Spanish club. We sent her along to the trial session and she loved it. We had foolishly assumed there would be a concessionary rate (as there usually is with after school clubs) but there is not as it is run by a private company so we can't afford for her to go again.

I feel this is very unfair to offer this as only children whose parents can afford to send them can go, I think it creates a divide in the 'state' system.

All children in state education do get equal opportunities.

In school hours.

Out of school hours, of course they don't, how absurd. Some poor kids don't even get a decent meal let alone Spanish lessons.

You and your DH are setting a wonderful example to your children, that education and hard work will give you a better life. That is more valuable to them than any number of Spanish lessons .

It's the through school aspect that bothers me too, advertising it in school, free session to the children, sending home leaflets like it's something of major importance. DD starts school next year and if they send home any leaflets advertising stuff like this they'll get it all back in an envelope at the end of term.

I don't get a buzz. It makes me feel sad and angry, as it happens. Like most decent people.

BettySuarez that seems like an ideal arrangement to me - and we don't know that similar isn't happening in the OP's school.

Polly there are plenty of pretty attitudes on this thread (I'm no longer shocked by them sadly).

It boils down (and I am not including you in this Polly) to "You're poor/you chose this way of life - tough" vs "well my DCs can't have xyz, so why should yours".

Neither approach is particularly edifying.

Not a troll OP.

You asked a question in AIBU. You got my answer. No-one says you have to like it or agree with it.

maypole1- I agree with you, with re- Benefit Claimants getting everything free.

I am what you would call 'working poor', I work for minimum wage, DP is unable to work due to health problems (not that ATOS agree), and we receive WTC, CTC and CB, we are just above the cut off point for HB/CTB.

DS has missed out on so much, I've had to even keep him off school/pretend he has appointments, when there's things going on DURING SCHOOL HOURS that the school demand money for i.e non-uni day, those visiting science type fairs e.t.c Because despite being 'working poor' as far as the school are concerned if you don't get FSM, then you MUST pay for these things. They even had the cheek to hound me for payment for a visiting fair that he never attended (he genuinely was ill that day) because the company had already been paid, and the cost was divided equally between all children in the class (bar those on FSM of course).
I used to just give him what I had spare on non-uni days, usually about 50p, but the teacher would tell him off in front of everyone for not paying the £2 that the school demanded, so it's easier to keep him off.
He also has a plain black £3 school jumper from Tesco, not a £12 logo-ed one from the school, again because I don't qualify for uniform grant, and the school are constantly on my back about that as well, despite uniform not being compulsory in primary school.
I dread to think what I'm going to do when he goes to secondary, because of where we live (village 10 miles from nearest city) there's only one school in the catchment area, and I can't afford the transport costs to send him outside of catchment (all children in village get free transport to this school), and they have a really expensive uniform. Other schools covered by my LA have badges available that can be sewn on to blazers e.t.c, the school I'll have to send DS to don't, you have to buy the blazer e.t.c with the badges already on it, smallest size being £85 I'm hoping I can just get away with buying him a couple of the logo-ed jumpers (£30 a pop!), and not getting the blazer, but no doubt I'll have a fight on my hands with that school when the time comes.

So OP, I do think YA kind of BU, because if your on FSM, there's probably plenty that you get for free that 'working poor' have to miss out on, so your DD won't be the only one missing out.

Yes, Polly, I'm shocked by eg 'children having a sense of entitlement'. Good. I want my child to know that all children are entitled to the full range of ducational opportunities.

Hi -our school PTA put together a fundraising committee so that they could have a fund to help those on free school meals attend after school clubs.

Not just paying for the lesson itself, but also for the transport to get home as obviously they could not get the school bus.

This fund also helps any parent in need for school trips which are not part of the curriculum (i.e. non local government funded) Perhaps you should join your PTA (apologies if you have) and get something done.

All children do deserve equal opportunities, but hey - our school doesn't offer a Spanish club by any company - so where do my kids go for their subsidised Spanish lessons?? Or is it only your school's kids who should be equal.

PintOfStellaAndBuckfastChaser - sorry, what would that be that then?

a significant minority of people in England get a little buzz out of inequality

I'd go as far as to say that it's the majority tbh.

I am not one of them however.

All children deserve equal opportunities absolutely but it's naive to think that it can happen all the time. It may well be that the company have already used the reduced room rate to reduce the cost to all the children.

SCOTT - please don't assume that anyone who thinks the OP is being unreasonable has brought their children up in a brattish manner or hasn't themselves been in the position of having to deny their child something through lack of funds.

PintofStella - are you familiar with the phrase 'divide and rule'? We should all get all these things free, wealth of parents shouldn't affect child's school experience.

ByTheWay - I'll give you their details if you like, sure they'd be more than happy to ply their trade at your school too

There is a great deal of divide and rule going on these days, alice.

pintofstella I think your situation is different to the OPs as it refers to National Curriculum activities within school hours. Under the terms of the Education Act they have no right to hound you for money for these, they can only ask for a voluntary contribution from parents, which parents are under no obligation to pay. Obviously if nobody pays, these things cant happen, but they can't force you to pay. If you don't pay, your child cant be excluded from the activity if it goes ahead. Slightly different rules for residentials, but they have to have a fund for residentials to help families on income support.

If it has reached the point where you are keeping him off because of their demands for money you should make a strongly worded complaint to the school governors. The behaviour of the school is illegal.

The non uniform days are supposed to be a charitable donation. A donation can, by definition, not be enforced. They should suggest an amount like a pound or something but stress that people should give what they can. be it 50p or five pounds.

YABVU, there are two adults in the household both choosing to not work despite having three children to support. You can hardly therefore complain that your children are missing out when others wont financially support you.

You could have both carried on working and studied in the evening or at least gone one at a time to uni. Why should a business support your lifestyle choice.

Its great that the school offer choices of clubs, some will want them others want but the choice is there.

SheCutOffTheirTails - you said:

"They are getting a subsidised room rate, and free marketing opportunities to a captive (and impressionable) market.

No private company should be getting those things unless they are offering subsidised places."

Can I clarify - are you talking about the OP's school, and if so, where has she said that the club is getting a subsidised room rate for hire of the school premises (I've looked and can't find it, but am more than happy to be shown if I have missed it)? It may also be that the club's prices have already been reduced, if the club is getting a subsidised rate, so it is being offered to the children at a lower rate than it would be if it were in other premises.

TBH, whilst I agree that if a club is getting a subsidised room rate, it should offer subsidised places, I don't see how an individual club could tailor those rates to the financial circumstances of the individual children/families - they'd have to have access to some pretty personal information.

I also believe that it is perfectly possible to explain to children that different people can afford different things, without attaching a value judgement to that (as you said to Jenai, "Maybe you are fine with your children being brought up as entitled brats who learn early that poor children are fucked in terms if opportunities. I'd prefer mine were a little older before learning that lesson."). My dses have grown up knowing that we can afford more things than some of their friends' parents, and less than others, and that has at no time translated into a judgement of the people concerned.

I'd also argue that it could be a good thing for children to understand that there are people worse off than themselves (not, you note, that there are people who are intrinsically worse than them), because that enables you to discuss the importance of finding ways of leveling out those inequalities, and to show your kids that they can do things to help their friends who are less well-off. For example, if child A gets sent to football club, he can teach his friend, child B, the skills that he is taught at the club (not, before you accuse me of it, in a patronising the poor way, but in a friendly way).

For the third time we are finacially better off now than when we were both working

shecutofftheirtails has hit the nail on the head. I am disgusted at a lot of the attitudes on this thread, you sound like a bunch of rabid dogs, looking down at people who dare to breathe the same air as yourselves 'poor people'. OP good for you and your man for putting yourselves through Uni,I'm sure it's hard enough to get by without some of these people's attitudes.
(half of these 'poor people haters' wouldn't say jack in real life anyway,bet Mumsnet is the only chance they get to spew their bollocks) :)

IQuiteLikeVodka - [applaudes loudly]

kat2504- There's nothing on the letters that say 'voluntary' they're usually worded 'the cost per child will be £xx'.
I'm in Scotland, so I'm not sure if the 'voluntary' thing is just in England.

Well if you are better off now that when you were working you will appreciate that there are plenty of working parents who also can't afford to pay for everything their kids ask for.

During school hours and for national curriculum activities schools should do their utmost to ensure that all children are treated equally. Mostly they do this.

But these private clubs are outside of normal education hours. They are an activity, like ballet or swimming or pony riding that parents can choose to pay for or not. They can't afford to let people go for free as charging parents is what pays their wages.

Using school as an advertising medium is possibly debatable, I do understand why people don't like that. Children are impressionable and if it is sold to them in assembly as something really great and important they will feel they are missing out. I understand that entirely.

pintofstella I'm not sure about the law in Scotland. In England every letter has to make it abundantly clear that it is a suggested voluntary contribution.

Iquitelikevodka, who on earth on this thread has 'looked down' at poor people, and how?

Pint - I bet there will be a second-hand uniform shop / sale. I run the ones at my dd's school and a £95 blazer will go for a tenner, and still look perfectly ok. Ring the school and find out who to speak to - I often open up for parents who are after a certain item.