to say no to sleepover?

[HerbWoman]

DD (11) has just started secondary school and has made a new best friend who has invited her for a birthday sleepover this weekend. I haven't met the girl or her parents and won't have the chance to do so before the weekend. I am not happy to say yes to the sleepover (usually say no to sleepovers in term time anyway) but have said DD can go to the birthday party and I will pick up in the evening. AIBU and over-protective or should I let my 11 yr old sleepover when I haven't met the parents or even the girl (who DD has known for all of 2 weeks) myself?

This is very unfair-you don't want your DD to do over there until the friend has been 'assessed' so the friends parents are supposed to be quite happy for her to come to you!

They are not 'pretty desperate' !! I must admit that I hate sleepovers and wouldn't but some families love them and have an open house policy! I have friends who just have sleepovers on the spur of the moment-they are neither brave, foolish or desperate-merely laid back and sociable. I have done very few-but I am not that sociable and I like my sleep.

If you read my earlier post you would see that I had a contingency plan for those who felt unable to ask straight out to go home.

You don't have to be fair to the point of 100% impartiality about anything and you are entitled to make value judgements about other families, where your children's welfare and happiness is concerned.

"If the friends your DD makes are so shallow that she'll be ostracised if she misses one or two social events, she would probably be better off looking elsewhere for her friends."

This sounds exactly like something my own mother would have said to me and is I think inaccurate. If the girls had all known each other for a while I actually don't think it is such a big deal her not going to the sleepover.

The point is that she has only just started at this school and met this girl and maybe others recently. It is easy when girls spend time together and start to click as friends for one to be left out just because they haven't got to know this other girl as well. This isn't being shallow, just natural.

She wouldn't be ostracised for missing a social event. But she may be left out because she misses opportunities to get to know and bond with other girls.

The other girls may also think that this girl is a bit wet as she obviously isn't allowed to stay over for a sleepover.

I do think a code word or code sentence is a good idea if your child wants to come home early but doesn't want to admit this to her friends. I had this with my DC.

The only time it was used when 1 DD phoned up and asked the code of could I video a programme for her. My OH rang back 20 minutes later and said she needed to come home as we needed her to look after her younger DS while we dealt with a family energency.

On collecting her we found out that there wasn't anything majorly wrong. But there were some girls there who she wasn't expecting to be there who were very loud and brash and my quite shy DD couldn't cope with them.

I agree Lesley-very much the sort of thing that my mother would have said-with no understanding that at 11 friendships are very new and need nurturing.
It is nice to know tha my idea worked Lesley-I just chose it at random-there are lots of codes you could have.
It is a natural progression. Under 5 yrs it is easy-you choose the friends from your friends. At 5yrs they meet the DCs that you don't know and people on here agonise over whether they should go to tea with 'strangers'. They then have 6 yrs of this. Then comes 11yrs and you don't even see the friends parents and they want to take your DCs out or have them for the night and people (prob the same ones) are back to agonising.
They will then want to go out alone with friends and no adults-in the day and then in the evening.
It is normal-you have to find ways to make it work.It goes on to them driving in cars of the newly qualified etc etc.Catching trains alone etc.

I think it's better to have the communication of the desire to come home between the parents and their child as opposed to having the child pluck up the courage to approach the hostess or host and say they want to leave /have a stomach upset/headache/toothache.

I agree it is important to allow girls the opportunity to socialise for the reasons Lesley mentions. Boys' friendships have a different dynamic. With girls, the 'who's in' and 'who's out' aspect of life can't be dismissed and expected to disappear as mothers tend to want to see happen. It doesn't go away just because you wish it wasn't so.

I can also hear my mother saying 'they must be desperate for friends to have a sleepover' and it just isn't true! It is probably done by the most popular.

The most popular -- yes, they are willing to do what it takes to achieve that status though. In the case of people who are destined for popularity or used to it, I would still consider them brave to open their doors to 11 year olds who will be trying to impress each other with their coolness, hipness, craziness or whatever they feel is an attractive attribute.

Have seen the desperation thing too, in the case of someone trying very hard to have their child fit in, never mind make friends. There were never ending invitations and open house sort of events before school dances so the girls could get dressed and done up together and destroy the bathroom . Some people try very hard. These people I would call foolish (the particular family I am thinking of should have forced their DD to shower more frequently and it would have been half the battle won).

The poor girl can't help that her birthday is a few weeks from the beginning of term! She's probably really nervous that no-one will come to her party.

And as for you are entitled to make value judgements - maybe, but that has to be based on something. Like a phone call, or a drop off.

I would let her go,and get used to the fact that when they start secondary school you will not know all your DCs friends parents

I would want to try and check the parent/s of the friend were not pissheads who were likely to leave the girls to their own devices, be off their heads, allow the girls to drink alcohol, or be out and the house possibly full of older teens/friends of older siblings..

I dont think it is over-cautious to check out the type of people who are going to be responsible for your child, and 11 is a very awkward age, when it is the time that kids start experimenting with things that they have not encountered before.

Paedophiles are an unlikely danger, but alcohol and drugs and teenage boys are a very real danger at this age.

If it is a friday or saturday night though, it shouldnt be an issue just because it is termtime. An early night on the Sunday should be plenty of rest ready for school.

Oh yes, definitely hold off on forming an opinion until you have something solid to use in forming one...

I think it's possibly a bit late to try to do this at the time of drop off though. If you see a major problem there on the spot, you are faced with having to make a very fast decision and possibly wheel around and bundle the DD back into the car in front of the rest of the girls.

I am very thankful that you were not my mother ,mathsanxiety, I had enough trouble with her as it was, not understanding girl's friendships.
The really 'cool' do not have to curry favour to win friends. Suprisingly there are families who are just friendly and relaxed and issue invitations because they enjoy it. (I dare say that if they are going to have to go through the third degree and have their DD 'assessed' first then they would think twice!)

Don't you trust the judgement of your DD at all Mathsanxiety? I was quite happy that mine made suitable friends at 11-in fact some of the parents became my friends-however I didn't view them with deep suspicion ready to 'bundle DS in the car again'.

I really don't know what some of you will do. DS did a French exchange at 13yrs, he went to the south of France for 8 days with his exchange partners family. The school arranged it-I didn't meet them, never saw their house etc. He came to us-I was not CRB checked!! DCs have always done it-they survive-maybe over anxious, over protective mums don't.
However I dare say they make their DC miss out -in case..............

Sorry -the French boy (aged 12 at the time-he was an Aug birthday) came to us.

YABU. When this happened with DD1 I just phoned the Mum before the sleepover and met her when at the drop off.

TBH if you saw anything at drop off time it would be pretty big red flags that surely other girls dropped off or their parents would worry about e.g. parents taking drugs, house disgustingly filthy.

What is more your DD is going as part of a group so they will be spending time with each other and not the family.

My DC went on exchanges abroad as well - I never met the family or saw where they lived. But I taught my DC strategies for coping with situations e.g. talk to teacher if anything feels off or wrong.

She is 11 not six. My son at 11 had a girlfriend, I knew where they lived but had not met the parents he used to sleep over in her brothers room.

YABU
You can stay for a few minutes and meet the parents. Then you can decide if she can stay over and invent a last minute good reason that she needs to be up early the next day.

Thank you cat64-I have gone through it and I appreciate that it isn't easy-none of it is!
If you have done a good job for the first 11 yrs then you shouldn't have a problem-trust your DCs.
You will be continually be put in situations that you find difficult. e.g DS was in the top French set and they do an exchange in yr 8. Of course they don't have to go, but it brings on the French like nothing else. The school arrange it all and match up like minded DCs. We got the French boy first-he was 12yrs old. The school did not come and check my house and the rest of the family. It was a bit easier for us, I had him first-he was well brought up and his mother phoned him quite a lot, she was obviously anxious and she didn't speak English. DS was nervous when he went-he only knew the boy and he was going into a different culture and he knew that the parents didn't have English.
Was he supposed to miss it because his mother couldn't cope with the fact that she had never met the family, not seen the house, checked on food etc?
We discussed it first-what to do if not happy or comfortable.
He managed fine. If they are expected to do that by the school I'm sure they can do one night with a local friend when you are at the end of a phone ready to collect if necessary!!
It is utter rubbish to assume that every DC who happens to have a birthday early in the school year is desperate and buying friendships-just because you know one like that! DCs of 11yrs like girly sleepovers-or a lot do.

Sorry DDs of 11yrs like girly sleepovers. DSs might like them later on-that will be your next problem-mixed sleepovers!!!

How on earth will you know if the parents are drug-taking, alcoholic swingers unless they are legless when they answer the door? They can be as 'respectable' as you like on first meeting but that could just be a front...

I always used to be the most over-protective parent on the planet until my children went to secondary school.

Then you meet the parents for 2 minutes (unless they invite you in for a coffee) and you just have to trust.

Let her go!

You bring up your DCs to be sensible and risk assess for themselves-they do have to get a bit streetwise, even living where we do in a village.
If you haven't let go at 6 yrs and let them go off for tea with a DC where the parents are not particular friends, if you haven't let them stay overnight on their own with grandparents by about 8yrs, if you avoid overnight trips with school or Brownies etc etc then you are going to have real problems when DCs get to the next stage and you haven't even got to the stage before.
Secondary school means that you are not at the school gate (and even if you are the other parents are not, or are sitting in cars) you can't know the parents in the same way. You have to trust and you have to empower your DC with the 'what would you do if......'

'I would be inclined to let her go, with a phone, and when you call, ask her questions where she will be able to give Yes or No answers. Do not expect an 11 year old (or older teen either) to be able to say 'Take me home, I hate it here and I am out of my depth' straight out over the phone to you. They are far more likely to gut it out than ask for rescue. Tell her in advance that if she decides to come home you are not going to interrogate her, that you will trust her judgement.'

'I agree it is important to allow girls the opportunity to socialise for the reasons Lesley mentions. Boys' friendships have a different dynamic. With girls, the 'who's in' and 'who's out' aspect of life can't be dismissed and expected to disappear as mothers tend to want to see happen. It doesn't go away just because you wish it wasn't so.'

Oh yes, ExoticFruits, I actually do trust the judgement of all four of my DDs, and my DS too, and I have encouraged them to use their judgement in carving out their social lives. I have a don't ask don't tell policy when it comes to leaving parties and have picked them up at all sorts of odd hours. They have turned out just fine. My oldest DD will graduate from a US university next summer, having navigated her way through high school and four years of college without incident as far as I am aware. DS has just set off on his own university adventure. The rest I see every so often between their many social engagements/sports/drama clubbing and their visitation with their father every second weekend.

What is wrong with assessing people? If I went to a house and smelled pot or caught sight of something x-rated on the TV or realised there that there was actually no adult present but instead older teens at a sleepover for 11 year olds, then I would tell my DC the party was off as far as they were concerned. I agree with you that parenting is a long process involving letting go of your children and trusting them to sort out their own lives for themselves. However, this is done in the case of my DCs with input from me as to how to go about making their decisions.

You seem to be pretty hot around the collar about the other parents' motives for having a sleepover. I don't get why you are so invested in beating me about the head with your scorn of the idea that parents can use parties to curry favour/ help their child's social life along/ maintain their child's popularity/ get to know people at the start of a new school year. I have seen just about everything in my many years of observation of the social lives of girls. It has been almost 11 years since DD1 turned 11; that translates to a lot of different schools, friends and friendships and a lot of parties over the years.

Maybe just as well I have boys!